SW&D groupthink

[Listi]

I think that the groupthink is only really evident in single items and in really basic fits. I don't think it's an enormous issue the majority of the time. Snake and sq4you, for example, are two people who people love the fits of... But the majority of people aren't coppin' crazy asymmetric stuff like Snake and super dope knits like Sq4you.

Seeing an item on a person on SF and buying it yourself is, in my opinion, a better form of expression than seeing an item advertised in a magazine or on a billboard and buying it. You are buying based on advice you trust, given freely, as opposed to advice that someone paid a lot of money to feed you.

I feel like SF actually bucks a lot of groupthink based on this. Most people's fashion involves **** like Diesel and True Religion or D&G and **** because they base their groupthink on a high price and a prominent advertisement. Basing our groupthink on seeing it worn well a dozen times, and extrapolating that it would look good on us too is a lot better than that.

I'm not going to argue against it existing, but I don't think it's excessive nor horribly damaging for the most part. I think it also needs to be taken into consideration that many SF members do not live in NYC/LA/SF/Paris etc., or even any moderately sized city, where they have an active fashion community around them and places to shop at. Going to NYC for a shopping trip is overwhelming, there is so much to see in so little time. The idea of living there and actively perusing the hundreds of shopping locations (to see what people are wearing, what's available, and finding good prices) is much different than someone who lives in a suburban area where they can access an H&M, one boutique, a Bloomingdales, and a couple of mall brand stores.

I dunno, when I consider all factors, I don't think groupthink is as big of an issue as people make it out to be.

 

[jarude]

Originally Posted by jet

I take it you don't read the prominent threads I mentioned that are always at the top of the page?
Yeah, there's groupthink in there, from that particular group of people. Circlejerk is too negative of a word; what I mean is that there's two kinds of groupthink and each kind is affirmed by the people propogating it. eg. Check the epicurean knits thread, people at baller status pushing the ideas of baller knits = better whereas people in the DB thread are pushing the idea that clarks are great, no need for alden chukkas. Getting past whether or not baller = better or Clarks > Alden (

), point is theres two distinct brands of groupthink. One may be more vocal or common (re: jcrew, db threads), but there's definitely a baller/pleb ethos distinction. edit: Not that groupthink is inherently bad - I think it can be good, if it affirms objectively positive things, eg. proper fit, masculine silhouettes, good materials/construction/value, etc. Having ballers love baller stuff and plebs love pleb stuff is fine - the problem is when the two camps collide. Two opposing camps with closed minds re: the other's perspective on an issue that really all boils down to subjective personal taste = no bueno.

 

[KitAkira]

Originally Posted by jarude

There's two kinds of groupthink going on in SF, one for ballers and one for plebs. Baller groupthink involves longtime members with esteemed standing in the forums getting eachother off while dumping on pleb style, whereas the pleb groupthink is less established/broke members/noobs getting eachother off while defying the need for baller-ing-ness. Look at any thread that will bring up some kind of controversy. Noob posts a dumb question, baller comes in and ***** on him. Other baller comes in and high-fives the OG baller and goes for the reacharound for ******** on noobs. Other people who aren't quite ballers but would like to be come in to demonstrate how their left-handed technique in order to graduate to the baller circlejerk, while more plebs come in to start rubbing eachother off to compensate.
This sounds kinky, where do I sign up?

Originally Posted by stick

There is no universal consensus, aside from the "search before you post" mentality. There's basically a niche for every "style" on the board. Hell, even when some idiot comes along posting about his kickass new True Religion jeans, a bunch of low post count lurkers will suddenly participate in the thread. That lack of universal consensus is because there is a diversity of styles prevalent on the board, despite the near-universal disdain.
Mr Christian Audigier would like to have a word with you. Also, why does everyone always have to come in with the Dolce (et. al.) hate? Talk about groupthink

 

[notwithit]

Originally Posted by Listi

Seeing an item on a person on SF and buying it yourself is, in my opinion, a better form of expression than seeing an item advertised in a magazine or on a billboard and buying it. You are buying based on advice you trust, given freely, as opposed to advice that someone paid a lot of money to feed you.
Also, people on SF rarely pin their clothing prior to photo shoots to simulate a better fit. Srsly, though, I readily admit that I pay more attention to the opinions of people who contribute more - particularly those who post fits that I like - but I agree with whoever said that post count ≠ credibility is on to something. My post count technically makes me a senior member (hell, even clarksdb is a senior member at this point), but I consider myself to be a serious n00b in almost all areas of the forum, and there are people approaching 1,000 posts who are clearly nothing more than trolls. I think there's a happy medium for people who are predominantly consumers rather than contributors to take the ballers' proclamations with a grain of salt and to ignore the plebes entirely. edit:

Originally Posted by KitAkira

Also, why does everyone always have to come in with the Dolce (et. al.) hate? Talk about groupthink
I think most people's initial experiences with D&G et al. involved some obnoxiously branded article that screamed conspicuous consumption (e.g., D&G belts with "DG" as the buckle).

 

[Prada_Ferragamo]

Originally Posted by stick

There is no universal consensus, aside from the "search before you post" mentality. There's basically a niche for every "style" on the board. Hell, even when some idiot comes along posting about his kickass new True Religion jeans, a bunch of low post count lurkers will suddenly participate in the thread. That lack of universal consensus is because there is a diversity of styles prevalent on the board, despite the near-universal disdain.

I have yet to see this happen, thank gawd.

 

[chronoaug]

 

[Makeshift_Robot]

Of course, dogg. A lot of it comes from people who came to the forum with no fashion sense and just kind of glommed onto whatever viewpoint they liked best. Hence the unconditional hate on Dolce, RL, and Varvatos, and the unconditional love on Julius, Dior Homme, CP, etc. I was definitely in this camp for a while.

Raw denim is seriously the best thing though, it's fantastic. (0)

 

[Prada_Ferragamo]

Originally Posted by KitAkira

Also, why does everyone always have to come in with the Dolce (et. al.) hate? Talk about groupthink

I have a few outerwear pieces from the mainline from a couple of years ago that I really like. Not so much into the diffused line though.

 

[A Fellow Linguist]

Originally Posted by notwithit

I readily admit that I pay more attention to the opinions of people who contribute more - particularly those who post fits that I like.

Yes, yes, good. I always take the opinion of someone who I know dresses well over a high-post-count-non-contributor (except jet), so yes, I do sometimes fall into the 'baller' groupthink. I think what people are calling the 'baller circle-jerk' is just a bunch of dudes who get along well and have mutual respect for each other's style.

 

[Fycus]

I don't think groupthink is all that bad, but I think the internet fashion crowd tends to gravitate towards certain styles and trends and not back away from them. For example, I'm a huge fan of washed denim, particularly those in the LVC line and higher end companies who actually put money into distressing techniques and styling that is realistic and interesting. God forbid I wear distressed jeans in a pic without receiving some hate, because raw is all the rage on most of the forums. Despite some groupthink, most of the opinions here are more or less valid. Oftentimes when I make a purchase based on what I see on the forums, I notice myself wearing that item more than others in my wardrobe because of the fit and finish of the garment. A good amount of the people on these boards are surprisingly good at finding quality, and it doesn't hurt to emulate their style.

 

[KitAkira]

Originally Posted by Fycus

I don't think groupthink is all that bad, but I think the internet fashion crowd tends to gravitate towards certain styles and trends and not back away from them. For example, I'm a huge fan of washed denim, particularly those in the LVC line and higher end companies who actually put money into distressing techniques and styling that is realistic and interesting. God forbid I wear distressed jeans in a pic without receiving some hate, because raw is all the rage on most of the forums. Despite some groupthink, most of the opinions here are more or less valid. Oftentimes when I make a purchase based on what I see on the forums, I notice myself wearing that item more than others in my wardrobe because of the fit and finish of the garment. A good amount of the people on these boards are surprisingly good at finding quality, and it doesn't hurt to emulate their style.
Actually, I'd say that the trend has been moving away from raw denim and more towards coated or colored denim

 

[macuser3of5]

i think we can all agree this thread is stupid

 

[Cacatfish]

Originally Posted by jet

They don't blindly cop those as much as noobs entering and getting brainwashed by entry level workwear for dummiez.

I love arbitrary distinctions.

 

[Master-Classter]

Originally Posted by macuser3of5

i think we can all agree this thread is stupid
wrong again. Lruk moor n00b!

1. even if there is some groupthink, consider that it's not like we're all in the same little town somewhere, we're random individuals scattered across the globe. Plus, the trends we're going to follow are never really that mainstream anyway (even if the GAP has raw denim, most people still don't know what it even is). So my point is, it's really not that big a deal.

2. I think that some level of cohesion is useful for assimilating noobs and helping them build basics. It's become almost a necessity for this board becuase of the constant steam of noobs coming in so it's easier to just give them a basic manual and tell them to start there. All that being said, I really WOULD like to see some more diversity in the WAYW's, in anything from more like those crazy Germans and Scandinavians (you know what I mean) to maybe some occasional HypeBeast stuff. I think people are too afraid to post for fear of getting ripped apart first thing. The MC crowd is maybe a little too circlejerk but I'm hoping (and doing it) that they'll become more comfortable with doing basic honest feedback and I wish the SW&D crowd would start doing more of that too to encourage new posters.

 

[emptym]

Is groupthink all that bad? Aren't two heads better than one and all that?
Sometimes, people just agree. And that's not always bad imo.

I think the common SF critique of groupthink (on the MC side too) comes from the larger groupthink of (post)modern culture, partucularly US culture, that says you have to be different to be authentic. Iow, we're all brainwashed into thinking we're rebels, self-made men, free-thinking individuals. But we all think we're that way.