Sport Coats and Jeans

[WillingToLearn]

For that price, you can get some MTM jeans in high quality fabrics. look at todd shelton. if you are an easy fit, it may not be worth the step up in cost, unless there is some specific denim (color) you are looking for

 

[dieworkwear]

I have been debating buying LVC 1947s vs. Blackhorse Lane denim. I have read reviews that LVCs are not worth it but there are still people who love them. What are your thoughts as you have branched out? My standard denim are 501s in the $50 range so buying something between $200-$300 would be a one time thing.

In my experience with high-end denim, everything differs more in terms of taste, rather than quality. Mainline 501s and lower-end denim, to some degree, is the same thing. I mean, denim is denim -- it's just a heavy, usually blue, cotton twill.

LVC and Blackhorse Lane are going to be fairly similar, in terms of what people in this thread want out of a pair of jeans. The denim is a little stiffer and usually raw (or raw-ish, meaning dark). But it won't be super slubby or have the sort of characteristics that make denim nerds excited. Which is good cause you don't want a super strange denim fabric with sport coats.

LVC 1947 501s, Blackhorse NW3 (slim straight), and Blackhorse NW1 (related straight) are all modeled after the same mid-century cut. They're a little roomier through the leg than most "high end" slim jeans today, and the rise is a touch higher. But they're still slim-ish. Blackhorse has a nice little construction detail around the fly area, where the fly opens flat, but it's a small thing. IIRC, the inside is also finished with a flat felled seam, rather than overlock stitching, but this is again mostly a small detail. You're mainly buying for the cut.

These are usually "better" than lower-end 501s and basic denim in that: 1) the cut is more reliable than mainline 501s (which is all over the place), 2) the denim feels a little heftier and will age better (e.g. develop better fades), and 3) if it matters to you, they come with a bit of history and/ or are made with some provenance (more symbolic meaning). Mainline 501s, especially non-rigid, can be kind of flimsy and sometimes have ugly wash patterns.

Personally, think guys in this thread stress too much over denim. I don't think there's any real reason to go MTM. Denim shrinks and stretches anyway with wear. It's a very unstable fabric. And it looks good beat-up and worn-in, so you can wear it with casualwear. Doing stuff like dry cleaning denim or keeping some super straight leg line just ends up making jeans look kind of dorky. If the symbolic meaning of jeans don't mean much to you, and you don't have any interest in things like neppy fabric or whatever, just get something in a good cut. You'll know it when you try it and see yourself in the mirror.

 

[mossrockss]

I just want to say the solution to nearly every single "does this sport coat look good with these jeans?" question is usually:
wear white jeans instead

 

[dieworkwear]

I just want to say the solution to nearly every single "does this sport coat look good with these jeans?" question is usually:
wear white jeans instead

That's true, although I think tweed does better with blue jeans.

The only guys who I think may struggle to find jeans are those with a less common body type (mostly bigger or a more athletic build). Even for athletic, there are plenty of options now for that. Jeans are so forgiving in terms of fit and the stuff changes with wear and wash anyway.

 

[Eli Curt]

That's true, although I think tweed does better with blue jeans.

The only guys who I think may struggle to find jeans are those with a less common body type (mostly bigger or a more athletic build). Even for athletic, there are plenty of options now for that. Jeans are so forgiving in terms of fit and the stuff changes with wear and wash anyway.

The only pair I can wear are Lee's athletic cut. Everything else is too tight in the seat or too roomy in the ankles. I wear a 32 waist but need ample room for my trunk and thighs.

Wrangler didn't work, epaulets didn't work, 501 didn't work, lands end, ll bean - I try straight cuts, athletic, slim straight.

It's tiring and futile when I'm going to blow through the crotch every year anyways and the Lee's are perfect @ $27.

 

[M635Guy]

In my experience with high-end denim, everything differs more in terms of taste, rather than quality. Mainline 501s and lower-end denim, to some degree, is the same thing. I mean, denim is denim -- it's just a heavy, usually blue, cotton twill.

LVC and Blackhorse Lane are going to be fairly similar, in terms of what people in this thread want out of a pair of jeans. The denim is a little stiffer and usually raw (or raw-ish, meaning dark). But it won't be super slubby or have the sort of characteristics that make denim nerds excited. Which is good cause you don't want a super strange denim fabric with sport coats.

LVC 1947 501s, Blackhorse NW3 (slim straight), and Blackhorse NW1 (related straight) are all modeled after the same mid-century cut. They're a little roomier through the leg than most "high end" slim jeans today, and the rise is a touch higher. But they're still slim-ish. Blackhorse has a nice little construction detail around the fly area, where the fly opens flat, but it's a small thing. IIRC, the inside is also finished with a flat felled seam, rather than overlock stitching, but this is again mostly a small detail. You're mainly buying for the cut.

These are usually "better" than lower-end 501s and basic denim in that: 1) the cut is more reliable than mainline 501s (which is all over the place), 2) the denim feels a little heftier and will age better (e.g. develop better fades), and 3) if it matters to you, they come with a bit of history and/ or are made with some provenance (more symbolic meaning). Mainline 501s, especially non-rigid, can be kind of flimsy and sometimes have ugly wash patterns.

Personally, think guys in this thread stress too much over denim. I don't think there's any real reason to go MTM. Denim shrinks and stretches anyway with wear. It's a very unstable fabric. And it looks good beat-up and worn-in, so you can wear it with casualwear. Doing stuff like dry cleaning denim or keeping some super straight leg line just ends up making jeans look kind of dorky. If the symbolic meaning of jeans don't mean much to you, and you don't have any interest in things like neppy fabric or whatever, just get something in a good cut. You'll know it when you try it and see yourself in the mirror.

For me, the pattern has made an incredible difference. My Raleigh denim stuff has made everything else I have feel like a sack. I was really puzzled at how different they felt until I started looking at their videos about how they've designed and made them (I find these a bit tedious that they're chunked up into one-minute bites, but in total "Season 1" is really interesting). It nets out to the fact that they leverage the fact they're low-speed, hands-on production to incorporate some things that make them fit better. It doesn't hurt that the second pattern maker ever at Levis wandered into their shop and decided to work for them. I'm 90 or so wears into my first selvedge pair from them, and they're great. Seriously expensive (list $315), but I've been able to find deals here and there (they were 30% off at Domestic Domestic recently and I was sorely tempted to buy another pair to tuck away, but already have one and couldn't put another $200 on a shelf).

Anyway, they're great. I don't get as giddy about denim details - they're local to me and their selvedge is from the Cone White Oak plant that was an hour or so from here. As I'm sure many of you know, it's now closed - the last source for selvedge in the US. Almost all of it is from China or Japan now. Anyway, they bought up before the plant closed, so their flagship stuff will be White Oak for a while...

 

[dieworkwear]

It's tiring and futile when I'm going to blow through the crotch every year anyways and the Lee's are perfect @ $27.

Yea, I mean, just to be clear: slim jeans are going to blow out in the crotch after a year no matter what, especially if you don't wash them that often. If someone buys high-end denim, they should be prepared for that. You can get them repaired pretty easily at a shop that does darning -- the job should run you about fifty bucks.

 

[M635Guy]

I just want to say the solution to nearly every single "does this sport coat look good with these jeans?" question is usually:
wear white jeans instead

That's not ever going to be an option for me.

Ever.

 

[dieworkwear]

That's not ever going to be an option for me.

Ever.

^ found donald trump jr

 

[M635Guy]

Yea, I mean, just to be clear: slim jeans are going to blow out in the crotch after a year no matter what, especially if you don't wash them that often. If someone buys high-end denim, they should be prepared for that. You can get them repaired pretty easily at a shop that does darning -- the job should run you about fifty bucks.

Exactly. There are some good shops out there. I'm kind of looking forward to sending a pair to Indigo Proof. Honestly though, I have three or four pairs in regular rotation, and while I don't wash the selvedge much, nothing is seeing enough wear to make a crotch blowout imminent. The Raleigh selvedge pair has about 90 wears with 1 soak (after about 45-50 wears) and 1 wash, along with a couple spot treatments. Everything seems to be holding up quite well, though I'm hardly thrashing them. 70% of their wear is to the office. Most of the rest is travel, often international, so that's when they get put through the paces a bit. Will be curious what they look like in another 50-60 wears, which will almost certainly include at least one more wash...

 

[Eli Curt]

Exactly. There are some good shops out there. I'm kind of looking forward to sending a pair to Indigo Proof. Honestly though, I have three or four pairs in regular rotation, and while I don't wash the selvedge much, nothing is seeing enough wear to make a crotch blowout imminent. The Raleigh selvedge pair has about 90 wears with 1 soak (after about 45-50 wears) and 1 wash, along with a couple spot treatments. Everything seems to be holding up quite well, though I'm hardly thrashing them. 70% of their wear is to the office. Most of the rest is travel, often international, so that's when they get put through the paces a bit. Will be curious what they look like in another 50-60 wears, which will almost certainly include at least one more wash...

The most durable selvedge I came across when I was really into the stuff in college was sold in urban outfitters: Unbranded. They had a 16 oz. pair in a tapered cut that fit me well back then. Wore em 5 days a week for 2 years straight and never washed em. Then they started falling apart.

 

[tnjed]

If you don’t want to wear white jeans, then get something in “stone” which does the same trick. Go to Sid Mashburn, they have in-house and Levi’s.

 

[M635Guy]

The most durable selvedge I came across when I was really into the stuff in college was sold in urban outfitters: Unbranded. They had a 16 oz. pair in a tapered cut that fit me well back then. Wore em 5 days a week for 2 years straight and never washed em. Then they started falling apart.

Easier to do that in college. I'm sure most of the folks in this thread work in a professional environment of some sort, and that doesn't really allow for a run-'em-ratty approach. I'm cool with a wabi-sabi approach - I'm not going to baby them, and I'm going to wash them when it's necessary. This pair has been the purest I've been about it: I soaked my Gustin pairs before wearing them, but just looked and I went 35 wears before the first wash with no initial soak or anything on the Raleighs. It's dippy, but I've been keeping track of wears, where they've been and occasions on the inside of one of the pocket bags:

But by washing them when they need it, I think the "falling apart" scenario is less likely. Construction details help a lot too.

 

[M635Guy]

If you don’t want to wear white jeans, then get something in “stone” which does the same trick. Go to Sid Mashburn, they have in-house and Levi’s.

I found a couple of pairs of their non-selvedge denim in colors that I like (also in the same "Martin" cut that fits me so well):
olive green

and Whiskey

(neither are very color-accurate, but you get the idea)

I've worn sport-coats with both of those

 

[wigglr]

I’ve had great success with Todd Shelton, FYI.