Shoes Explained

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie

^ So just to be clear, you do not favor gemming?
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=191166 Post #5

 

[archetypal_yuppie]

I was kidding...

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie

I was kidding...
No harm, no foul.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by daruma

May I ask where u got that drawing?

Drawing and quote from:

J. H. Thornton "Textbook of Footwear Manufacture"
(London 1953/1958/1964)

Look out on eBay or amazon for a copy to come up.

 

[michaelvl]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[youretheman]

I would like to say Hi to everyone!, this is my 1st post and I just found this forum by accident! I love shoes very much as they can you look distinguish or laid back...Anyway I am looking for opinions on what are the top rated shoe care kits out there? and any shoe care cleaning articles on HOW TO take care of your most beloved fashion necessity..Many thanks in advance.

ytm

 

[bespoke town]

Hi ,

Can we have some information on Bespoke shoes company investing on new project in south east Asia,
Would be appreciated.

 

[klthomascpa]

Great thread. Very informative. Thanks.

 

[daruma]

do these handmade shoes always have a cork filling?

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by daruma

do these handmade shoes always have a cork filling?
No. I'd venture to say that handmade shoes seldom have a cork filling. Why would we use cork when, if done correctly, there is little or no need for it as a filler and in any case, leather is as good or better? Cork is also fugitive and leather is not. Cork is needed on manufactured shoes because Goodyear welting creates a relatively deep cavity between the glued-on canvas ribs that must be filled. It can also be injected by machine or smeared on in seconds whereas a leather forepart liner has to be trimmed and fitted. Time is money

 

[Steve Thomas]

Originally Posted by FCS

A. Harris, great pictures, appreciate the time that you've taken to educate people like me. And also to all of the fashion afficionados in this forum, it's been a great time reading all of the postings here.

Just wondering, is there some kind of guide to examine shoe measurement more closely on ebay? Given that all shoe makers make their lasts differently, 'standard' width measurement might not offer much help. I'm somewhat familiar with Allen Edmonds' shoes (have 2 dress shoes of 10.5 EEE) and Rockport's (10.5 W), but I'm pretty much blank on other brands. Usually I ask about the width measured at the widest part of the outsole and the length, also measured from the outsole.


Thanks and best regards,
Ferry

Couldn't agree more. As a new member I'd love to see a thread that clearly spells out the measurements used to properly fit shoes. I've got shoes in sizes from 8.5 to 11. It's frustrating...

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by Steve Thomas

Couldn't agree more. As a new member I'd love to see a thread that clearly spells out the measurements used to properly fit shoes. I've got shoes in sizes from 8.5 to 11. It's frustrating...
First, there is no last sizing standard that can be relied on 100% of the time. There are many reasons for this...not the least is that each model of last is turned from a prototype. The shape and length and girths determine how all lasts turned from that prototype will grade. But more importantly if the original designer/modelmaker determines that the prototype is a, say, 9C--for whatever reason...capriciousness, vanity, whatever--all subsequent lasts will be graded and labeled relative to the prototype. And, as implied, the original sizing can sometimes be a mite arbitrary. Compounding this, lasts lasts don't grade up or down arithmetically: a size five last will be relatively shorter than a size nine--you cannot just take a size five, add four-thirds of an inch, and arrive at a size nine. Compounding that, within a "run"/model set, a size 9E will be longer than a size 9A. And to make matters worse, last sizes are not congruent from one manufacturer to another. And UK sizes are not congruent with US sizes or European sizes, etc., and vice-versa. Beyond all that the length of the foot is not the end all and be all of foot size or last selection (although many people buy shoes based on information conveyed to them by sales people who measure the length of foot...only..to determine size). The length of the foot from the back of the heel to the medial ball joint is far, far and away more important for determining the proper size of last. Heel seat width, tread width...and even such esoterica as short and/or long heel measurements...can be critical in obtaining a good fit. The average joe doesn't know how to measure any of these dimensions and the shoe salesman is in no better position. The bottom line? You cannot buy shoes off of Ebay (or anywhere online) with any real sense of surety that you will get a good fit.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by DWFII

No. I'd venture to say that handmade shoes seldom have a cork filling.

Why would we use cork when, if done correctly, there is little or no need for it as a filler and in any case, leather is as good or better? Cork is also fugitive and leather is not.

Virtually all makers of handmade shoes use a filler of one sort or another.

Although ground cork mixed with glue, as is standard in factory made shoes, is not used, cork sheets are very common, so is wool-felt on the continent, while English bespoke shoes use traditionally felt soaked in tar (which I believe is originally a product for the ship-building industry)

Hungarian shoe: Marcell Mrasan fitting a cork filler from 0:43 - 2:00

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German shoe: cork filler fitted from 0:00 - 0:45 (I believe the shoemaker is Hans-Joachim Vauk)

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

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English shoe: Tar felt used as filler:

The shoe is now ready for bottom filling, the object to fill up the cavity in the innersole between the seams ready to receive the sole. The material used must be light in weight and pliable to maintain flexibility, and to prevent creaking.

F.Y. Golding (editor) “Boots and Shoes etc.” 1935,
Volume VI “Handsewn Bootmaking” by H. Rollinson, pages 193 - 196.

It might be DWF's method, to utilize leather, or have no bottom filler at all (and he might have had good results with it); it is certainly not one used frequently.

At some other point, in the Golding, the quoted (or another) author expresses his dislike for the “old method” of using waste leather as filler, as this is likely to result in squeaking shoes.

In shoemaking as in life, there are no absolute rules. So, you pays your money, takes your choice!

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I don't seem to get those utube clips right. Here they are as direct link:

 

[ryewo[i dmfsOZI490w]

Wow that's a really detailed and informative article. Thanks a lot.

 

[DWFII]

^You're right about that "you pays your money, takes your choice." This is especially true for a maker. There is no reason to use tarred felt: 1)Especially in the context of a handwelted shoe ,there is no need for it to be any thicker than leather scraps. 2)It requires roughly the same amount of handling as leather. 3)It is impregnated with a substance that makes it adhesive but is, in all likelihood petroleum based. I can't say with authority but I doubt very seriously that anyone would go to the trouble of using pine pitch or resin to impregnate large sheets of felt. It is too expensive and rare. And businesses that make tar for sailing ships are few and far between. It is the adhesive nature of the tar that prevents the squeaking--it is only when separate layers rub and slide against each other that you get squeaking. 4) It is an extra expense that the shoemaker doesn't need. 1) leather is readily available. 2)the cement or glue used to to mount an insole liner does not have to be petroleum based 3)mounting a leather insole liner using glue of cement prevents squeaking just as surely as tar. In nearly forty years of making boots and shoes, I have never had a squeak using a leather insole filler. Never. Some of my boots are still out there, being worn every day after 20 years. Thornton is a man of his time and milieu. He spends 90% of his book talking about manufacturing techniques and materials. It is clear that he shares your opinion that Goodyear welting is an adequate substitute for hand welting. Depending on how you define "adequate" and what your ultimate goals is..making money or making shoes....he may be correct....or not. It is "adequate"...barely. Beyond that the OP asked about cork filling... 1)Cork is bound by petroleum based adhesives or sometime petroleum based tars. 2)It is far more likely to migrate out from under the pressure points of the foot than either leather or tar. 3)When it migrates what is left is a bare leather to leather interface--far more likely to squeak than any other approach. 4) It's an additional expense that the shoemaker doesn't need. Like the tarred felt it only has one application in making a shoe. And that application is one that can be filled just as well by leather. In my opinion..as a maker...both tar and cork are answers to questions that never were and never needed to be asked in the first place. Solutions to non-existent problems, IOW.