Saville Row Suit

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by GodAtum, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    Try Cad & the Dandy. I think (if memory serves) you can get full bespoke for the price (or around it) the OP asks for. Or try Barrington Ayre. The latter will gladly travel to London to meet clients.
     


  2. Geezer

    Geezer Senior member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    60
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Location:
    London
    +1 on Graham Browne. Full bespoke. Nice guys. Around £850. Not quite Savile (nb: spelling) Row, but very good and great value.
     


  3. The Silverfox

    The Silverfox Senior member

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    110
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Take this Mr "I too Know".[​IMG] I Don't need your knowledge on something am quite familiar with. I have important things to do. Good day. Lest and forget, don't pollute this guy's thread with your mediocre knowledge of Bespoke suits. Oh and you deserve another [​IMG]

    Are you on crack? Unless your familiarity with G&H is from the 70s, your numbers are absurd. They start MTM around 1000, and this is not the full MTM even. It's MTM with a fused coat, add another 1000 and the suit will be full canvas, add another 1000 on top of that again and it's bespoke.

    However, they do have certain periods where the promote certain offerings and give discounts. Last time, if I remember correctly, they were offering MTM half-canvas at 800 and full canvas at 1700, so if you have time to wait you can be opportunistic and wait until one of these campaigns come along.

    And by the way, MTM means Made To Measure, Ie not the stuff they sell out of bicester village, and certainly not at 175-300. Made to measure means that they take your measurements and then make the item custom to your order. There are no sizes as it is, as it's name indicates, made to your measures. What separates this from bespoke is that they will make the item in the factory with a standard pattern adapted to your measurements, whereas for full bespoke they draw up new patterns based on your measurements and essentially build the suit from scratch around your figure.

    If you are mistaking RTW for MTM and MTM for Bespoke, your post makes more sense, but if you actually mean what you say, you are either delusional or a compulsive liar, because the numbers you've been giving are absurd.

    With regards to their fabrics, I think I remember reading somewhere that they have in the neighbourhood of 20 000 fabrics available for bespoke items. I can't seem to find the source, so I can't provide a reference (and I may be mistaken), but the number is certainly a high one in either case, and I can assure you Loro Piana are among them.
     


  4. james_timothy

    james_timothy Senior member

    Messages:
    2,492
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    ~ Chicago ~
    WhippingBoys list was great, thank you.

    One or another of these threads led me into a long sweep through SF&LL. Another tailor that caught my eye was Chris Kerr, in Soho. There are short threads both here and on LL. He has floated up to to the top of my list to investigate when I go to London in a few weeks.

    Actually, the thing that limits me is the number of visits I'll be making to London this year: two, most likely, though the second one will be a week long. If I was making a third trip later this year, it'd be perfect.
     


  5. Macallan

    Macallan Senior member

    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    32
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Location:
    London
    £2.5k you get you a bespoke jacket at Gieves, suit will cost about £3.7k.

    Gieves MTM: Half-canvas starts at about £1k, while full-canvas starts at double price (£1.8k-£2k).
     


  6. WhippingBoy

    WhippingBoy Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    For clarification, for a suit to be bespoke, you must meet a cutter with a reasonably long and reputable tailoring background. That cutter must cut you a pattern, then cut your suit from that pattern, conduct at least 2 fittings etc

    Cad and the Dandy are NOT bespoke. It is an operation run by 2 guys who were working for a bank 2 years ago. The nearset they are to bespoke is that they work out of John DeBoise's premesis in Castle court.

    Moss Bross Bespoke is run by the same muppet who runs dress2kill. His background is in recruitment consultancy!!!

    Asuitthatfits is run by a former IT worker and an aeronautical engineering graduate. There suits are made in Nepal!!!

    These operations and there cohorts, Kack and Allen, Fielding and Nicholson, et al. are all crap MTM operations. Businessmen/entrepaneurs/salesmen running tailoring businesses, try going to a tailor who is running a business
     


  7. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    John DeBoise, Edwin's brother, is the head cutter at Cad & the Dandy. They do indeed offer full bespoke as well as MTM. Please get your facts straight before commenting further.
     


  8. Beetleything

    Beetleything Senior member

    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    I have never heard such rubbish. You do understand the concept of MTM yes?

    This thread delivers....cannot get a MTM to fit...from the rack....[​IMG]
     


  9. Sleats

    Sleats Senior member

    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    WhippingBoy - just want to pick you up on a couple of points. Firstly and very briefly we do make bespoke and infact we have and do make for several of the companies mentioned in this post as true bespoke.

    Just like many other companies, A&S, Nortons, Nutters, etc etc the owners not being cutters does not mean that that hinders the company from making bespoke clothes. and indeed that list goes on and on. Indeed I may have been a banker but my family have been involved in making English cloth for generations but as a young chap earning money seemed more important than doing something that I enjoyed... Thankfully that how now changed!

    I think unlike a lot of other companies we confuse a few people by offering different types of construction ie a machine sewn suit and a fully hand made.

    Mossbespoke is not run Jimmy Hibbert of Dress2kill ( that is austin reed m2m)

    Not wishing to highjack the post but I think it is worth only writing on points that you are sure you are actually writing a fair and informed response




    For clarification, for a suit to be bespoke, you must meet a cutter with a reasonably long and reputable tailoring background. That cutter must cut you a pattern, then cut your suit from that pattern, conduct at least 2 fittings etc

    Cad and the Dandy are NOT bespoke. It is an operation run by 2 guys who were working for a bank 2 years ago. The nearset they are to bespoke is that they work out of John DeBoise's premesis in Castle court.

    Moss Bross Bespoke is run by the same muppet who runs dress2kill. His background is in recruitment consultancy!!!

    Asuitthatfits is run by a former IT worker and an aeronautical engineering graduate. There suits are made in Nepal!!!

    These operations and there cohorts, Kack and Allen, Fielding and Nicholson, et al. are all crap MTM operations. Businessmen/entrepaneurs/salesmen running tailoring businesses, try going to a tailor who is running a business
     


  10. WhippingBoy

    WhippingBoy Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Thanks for picking me on the MossBros Austin Reed slip there. Either way both are not bespoke

    Now Mr Cad and Dandy. If I walked into you shop at lunchtime today and asked you for a BESPOKE suit please clarify.

    1. Who be my cutter?
    2. Would I meet him?
    3. Can I watch him cut it?
    4. Who would measure me?
    5. Where is my suit tailored?
    6. Who conducts my fittings?
    7. Where is my pattern kept?

    If your cutter is John, what is the difference between his Bespoke and MTM, costing £1750 and £990 respectively and your Bespoke product costing £750.

    I am also not really interested in your family background. I am interested in YOUR specific tailoring track record. Last time I looked working for BNPParibas and Barclays was not the best apprentceiship for a tailor
     


  11. Sleats

    Sleats Senior member

    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Please let me try and answer:

    1. Who be my cutter? - John De Boise or Micheal Brown

    2. Would I meet him? - Yes

    3. Can I watch him cut it? - Yes in either of our 3 premises in London (not canary wharf but we have a workshop in the city in addition to our shop)

    4. Who would measure me? Michael or John

    5. Where is my suit tailored? - we make 30% in the UK and the rest in our workshop overseas. We are honest about this where as most keep it quiet.

    6. Who conducts my fittings? - The cutter who measured you

    7. Where is my pattern kept? - in our workshops



    I am sure Austin Reed do not claim to be bespoke...
    Mossbross do largely claim to be bespoke as they are trying to stir debate and discussion and people mentioning them on forums, newspapers et al. But you will find Brian the guys that runs the show knows it is not bespoke.


    Regarding Johns own customers and offerings I think it only fair for me to talk abt C&D




     


  12. Not Ed Harris

    Not Ed Harris Senior member

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Location:
    London, UK
    Not Ed Harris - what dashing tweed did Graham Browne make up for you? Just curious as there isn't much on the net about DT.

    It was in the MacDougall Check 2. When I get back from work tonight I'll see if I've got any pictures.

    Graham Browne charge about £85/m for it but I'd been in touch with Guy at Dashing Tweeds and he invited me round his house to look at his cloths and suits and I sweet-talked him into a discount as it was for my wedding. He's traded his photgraphy services to for tailoring from various places on Savile Row so I got to try on, I think, some Huntsman, A&S and Henry Poole. Some of the patterns may seem a bit much to be worn as a suit, but when you see them in real life it actually works.
     


  13. EFBenson

    EFBenson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    13
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Expect to pay £3000GBP and up for Gieves & Hawkes full Bespoke suits. The reason i recommend Hackett is that for less that price, Hackett will give you the best service ever and this includes the use of one of the best textile "Famous Loro Piana Textile". The Chelsea suit am intending to buy soon is made with this textile. So the durability is rest assured.

    G&H is £3250 + price of cloth for a two piece
     


  14. WhippingBoy

    WhippingBoy Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Fair enough, based on that evidence, you are worth investigating

    It does however raise further questions.

    1. Can you tell us more about Michael's background?
    2. Who do the tailors in the UK and overseas work too. John, Micheal or you?
    3. Are the UK tailors you use just used for finishing and the overseas operation for the making?
    4. What happens when I leave your shop with my bespoke suit? What after care do you recommend and where can I best achieve this
    5. Do you recommend all your bespoke client return after 3 months to see how the suit is wearing? Graham Browne do this


    I do not see why You and/or John would tell me or any other potential customer the difference between both of your repective bespoke products. Especially with such a significant price difference. I am not disputing the prices, they are what they are, however I would like you, or your cutter, as expert tailoring professionals, help the customer make an informed choice as to what he is buying.

    on the point of Austin Reed/Dress2kill/Moss bross

    http://www.qtheclub.co.uk/bespoke
    http://www.dress2kill.com/
    Reads like MTM being sold as bespoke to me!


    http://www.mossbros.co.uk/Downloads/...oke_june10.pdf
    There is nothing largely about this and nowhere does it openly admit they are NOT bespoke and trying to provoke a disucssion. If, as you say Brian Brick, (and his tailoring background is?) knows it is NOT bespoke why is he selling his product as bespoke.. That is called lying to customers, it is disingenuous and unprofessional.

    Would I be far off the mark if i assumed his 'Bespoke, please discuss!' suits are made in the same chinese factory that you own?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...Moss-Bros.html
     


  15. dbc

    dbc Senior member

    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Fair enough, based on that evidence, you are worth investigating

    It does however raise further questions.

    1. Can you tell us more about Michael's background?
    2. Who do the tailors in the UK and overseas work too. John, Micheal or you?
    3. Are the UK tailors you use just used for finishing and the overseas operation for the making?
    4. What happens when I leave your shop with my bespoke suit? What after care do you recommend and where can I best achieve this
    5. Do you recommend all your bespoke client return after 3 months to see how the suit is wearing? Graham Browne do this


    I do not see why You and/or John would tell me or any other potential customer the difference between both of your repective bespoke products. Especially with such a significant price difference. I am not disputing the prices, they are what they are, however I would like you, or your cutter, as expert tailoring professionals, help the customer make an informed choice as to what he is buying.

    on the point of Austin Reed/Dress2kill/Moss bross

    http://www.qtheclub.co.uk/bespoke
    http://www.dress2kill.com/
    Reads like MTM being sold as bespoke to me!


    http://www.mossbros.co.uk/Downloads/...oke_june10.pdf
    There is nothing largely about this and nowhere does it openly admit they are NOT bespoke and trying to provoke a disucssion. If, as you say Brian Brick, (and his tailoring background is?) knows it is NOT bespoke why is he selling his product as bespoke.. That is called lying to customers, it is disingenuous and unprofessional.

    Would I be far off the mark if i assumed his 'Bespoke, please discuss!' suits are made in the same chinese factory that you own?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...Moss-Bros.html


    Thanks for asking the hard questions. Am going to be watching this thread.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by