Pleated chinos a bad idea?

[Dan Dynamic]

So, if your goal is to put people at ease, I'd kind of avoid pleats. Pleats tend to make people think you're kind of stuffy, or at least stand out as old-timey. A high rise tends to have a similar effect.

I mean, after seeing you a few times, they might get used to it. Especially if you're not wearing a jacket. If you go with pleated cords, but wear a sweater over it for a cozy vibe, you might project "warm grandpa" instead of "vintage menswear geek" or "republican" (which, regardless of your political affiliation, is not a good look).

But somebody like... Ethan Wong manages to make tailoring look chill by taking advantage of what he calls "slouch," and his friends just get used to the idea that he might wear a suit to grab a burger.

You generally want to focus on textures -- a fuzzy woolen flannel, for example, instead of a sleek worsted twill. Chunky casual loafers instead of sleek patina'd oxfords. Casusal details that people can feel by looking at you.

If you can build that personal identity, then the people working with you will understand your style as part of your personality instead of the jarring quirk style is when strangers look at you.

Excellent article.

 

[Reggae Mike]

When I’ve questioned myself about pleats before, I came to conclusion, pleats are more a functional feature for comfort. My opinion is, if the necessity for extra room isn't needed either are the pleats.

 

[breakaway01]

So, if your goal is to put people at ease, I'd kind of avoid pleats. Pleats tend to make people think you're kind of stuffy, or at least stand out as old-timey. A high rise tends to have a similar effect.

I mean, after seeing you a few times, they might get used to it. Especially if you're not wearing a jacket. If you go with pleated cords, but wear a sweater over it for a cozy vibe, you might project "warm grandpa" instead of "vintage menswear geek" or "republican" (which, regardless of your political affiliation, is not a good look).

But somebody like... Ethan Wong manages to make tailoring look chill by taking advantage of what he calls "slouch," and his friends just get used to the idea that he might wear a suit to grab a burger.

You generally want to focus on textures -- a fuzzy woolen flannel, for example, instead of a sleek worsted twill. Chunky casual loafers instead of sleek patina'd oxfords. Casusal details that people can feel by looking at you.

If you can build that personal identity, then the people working with you will understand your style as part of your personality instead of the jarring quirk style is when strangers look at you.

I have to say I disagree with your take on pleats. Pleats are a great example of how the lines between 'classic' tailoring and casual/streetwear have blurred over the past decade.

https://journal.styleforum.net/if-you-could-actually-summer-2020/ and https://journal.styleforum.net/take-a-summer-vacation-from-your-usual-wardrobe/ have some great examples, some with pleats and some without. Wouldn't call them stuffy or old-timey. No Man Walks Alone carries lots of examples of more casual 'easy pants', many of which are pleated.

I do agree with looking at the outfit as a whole, rather than focusing on one element such as pleats.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

I have to say I disagree with your take on pleats. Pleats are a great example of how the lines between 'classic' tailoring and casual/streetwear have blurred over the past decade.

https://journal.styleforum.net/if-you-could-actually-summer-2020/ and https://journal.styleforum.net/take-a-summer-vacation-from-your-usual-wardrobe/ have some great examples, some with pleats and some without. Wouldn't call them stuffy or old-timey. No Man Walks Alone carries lots of examples of more casual 'easy pants', many of which are pleated.

I do agree with looking at the outfit as a whole, rather than focusing on one element such as pleats.

I mean, I mentioned the streetwear super-wide single forward pleated chinos in my first comment here, I know they're a thing, but I got the impression that OP is coming from a smart / dressy perspective, where pleats are a stuffy old detail, as opposed to coming at it from the casual / streetwear angle, which might be hard to make work in a work environment.

 

[breakaway01]

I mean, I mentioned the streetwear super-wide single forward pleated chinos in my first comment here, I know they're a thing, but I got the impression that OP is coming from a smart / dressy perspective, where pleats are a stuffy old detail, as opposed to coming at it from the casual / streetwear angle, which might be hard to make work in a work environment.

Still disagree that pleats are “a stuffy old detail” on smart/dressy clothes. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

Still disagree that pleats are “a stuffy old detail” on smart/dressy clothes. But we can agree to disagree.

I mean, I wear them -- as you can see from my photo. But I don't wear these old grandpa pants when I'm trying to make normies think I'm cool.

 

[breakaway01]

I mean, I wear them -- as you can see from my photo. But I don't wear these old grandpa pants when I'm trying to make normies think I'm cool.

Don’t you live in NYC? Don’t think the Armoury and NMWA would sell so many pleated dressy trousers if they were as undesirable and uncool as you make them out to be.

 

[breakaway01]

I did not know why I mentioned twill particularly. It is rather that I would like to fill the gap between tailored wool trousers and chinos. I am looking for something not as formal as wool trousers, but still not as casual as chinos - something that is congruent with pleats but still, despite their association with tailored clothing, projects kind of a "put everybody to ease" image (in other words an image being the opposite to a power suit/authoritarian image. I feel my wording may be a bit vague but I do not really know how to word it in other ways.

You mentioned corduroy, that is a good suggestion. I will probably get a few of them as autumn arrives. I was thinking of some type of herringbone, tweed trousers as well but obviously such trousers are not really suitable for all seasons.

Sorry for getting sidetracked.
I don’t think wool by itself makes a pair of trousers formal. And there is a lot of room between a power suit and chinos. Would a sportcoat be okay where you worked, for example? If so, that opens up a lot of options.

 

[Dan Dynamic]

Excellent article.

Sorry for getting sidetracked.
I don’t think wool by itself makes a pair of trousers formal. And there is a lot of room between a power suit and chinos. Would a sportcoat be okay where you worked, for example? If so, that opens up a lot of options.

Why yes, anything from jeans to a powersuit is appropriate in my office. But I aim to wear a sportscoat (sportsjacket?).

 

[breakaway01]

Why yes, anything from jeans to a powersuit is appropriate in my office. But I aim to wear a sportscoat (sportsjacket?).

In that case I think chinos are generally too casual with a sport coat. There is nothing wrong with wool trousers. You do want to generally avoid very “smooth” wool fabrics and other weaves that are more typical of suits (birdseye, nailhead, etc). Flannel in various weights is versatile in cooler weather. Be careful about tweed. Many are too soft to hold a good crease and are better as jackets.
There are various open-weave high twist wool fabrics for warmer weather.

I think this is a great introduction to trouser fabrics: https://putthison.com/building-a-basic-trouser-wardrobe/

 

[Dan Dynamic]

In that case I think chinos are generally too casual with a sport coat. There is nothing wrong with wool trousers. You do want to generally avoid very “smooth” wool fabrics and other weaves that are more typical of suits (birdseye, nailhead, etc). Flannel in various weights is versatile in cooler weather. Be careful about tweed. Many are too soft to hold a good crease and are better as jackets.
There are various open-weave high twist wool fabrics for warmer weather.

I think this is a great introduction to trouser fabrics: https://putthison.com/building-a-basic-trouser-wardrobe/

Excellent article. Are there any reason that cotton pants aren't included in a basic trouser wardrobe?

 

[breakaway01]

Excellent article. Are there any reason that cotton pants aren't included in a basic trouser wardrobe?

There are dressier cotton fabrics that have a smoother, less fuzzy feel that could be worn with a sportcoat. But they tend not to be as durable as wool overall.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

Don’t you live in NYC? Don’t think the Armoury and NMWA would sell so many pleated dressy trousers if they were as undesirable and uncool as you make them out to be.

New York is a city of nine million, plus commuters, plus tourists. I'd wager that both of these stores sell more flat front trousers than pleated, and that, combined, they don't sell nearly as much clothing to New Yorkers as suitsupply or Indochino.

As an attorney who is into menswear, I still almost never see anybody wearing pleated pants in person -- either the dresy kind or the casual kind. But I never said they were undesirable.

It takes a truly oblivious styleforum user to not understand that pleated trousers are seen, first and foremost, as grandpa clothes. I wear them anyway. Sometimes I try to make them look cool, and sometimes I lean into the vintage angle. But come on, man, open your eyes. They're not popular, and most people don't appreciate them at all.

 

[breakaway01]

New York is a city of nine million, plus commuters, plus tourists. I'd wager that both of these stores sell more flat front trousers than pleated, and that, combined, they don't sell nearly as much clothing to New Yorkers as suitsupply or Indochino.

As an attorney who is into menswear, I still almost never see anybody wearing pleated pants in person -- either the dresy kind or the casual kind. But I never said they were undesirable.

It takes a truly oblivious styleforum user to not understand that pleated trousers are seen, first and foremost, as grandpa clothes. I wear them anyway. Sometimes I try to make them look cool, and sometimes I lean into the vintage angle. But come on, man, open your eyes. They're not popular, and most people don't appreciate them at all.

No need to get personal. I am not oblivious. I just happen to disagree with your take on this.

Most people really don't think about menswear (this is fine, of course). I think that 95% of people out there don't really notice or care whether you are wearing flat fronted or pleated trousers. They are more likely to notice a high rise. If you wear dressy trousers with a sportcoat, it is even less likely that people would notice whether your trousers are pleated. If you were to poll people on the street, I agree that I suspect that many or even the majority would not elect to wear pleated dress trousers themselves. But that is quite different from people noticing and thinking negatively about pleated trousers when they see them on other people. I really don't think that is the case -- actually my point is that they don't register to most people at all.

I acknowledge that pleated trousers may not be as common as flat-front trousers. But is "popularity", as you put it, a good guide for how one should dress? If one were to take your argument literally, nobody should be wearing tailored clothing (outside of certain work settings).

Not sure why you're so insistent in pushing this idea that pleated trousers are for grandpas when you are happy to wear them yourself. I also don't understand the logic behind your statements that on the one hand "It takes a truly oblivious styleforum user to not understand that pleated trousers are seen, first and foremost, as grandpa clothes" and on the other, "But I never said they were undesirable." How do you enjoy wearing clothes that you believe make you look like a grandpa? Anyhow, I don't think that myself. Regardless of what you see among your fellow attorneys, I am seeing pleated trousers quite frequently among the high schoolers and university students in my Midwest town.

 

[breakaway01]

Pleated? Or not? Who can really tell or care?