Pleated chinos a bad idea?

[Dan Dynamic]

Hi,

I am about to buy MTM pleated chinos but I have always wondered whether pleats may be perceived as a formal feature, whereas chinos are perceived as casual pants. Do you think I should avoid combining pleats and chinos? I find pleats much too comfortable to omit them, however pleats and chinos might not be the best combination?

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

Well... Pleats can certainly be a traditional, dressy feature in some contexts.

Traditional "Ivy" style is certainly focused on flat front chinos. They're definitely the "norm," and the most basic / bland / versatile pant you can have, at least if they're in a neutral color. Is that what you want?

On the other hand, a lot of cool brands are using pleats these days. Particularly, I noticed a pattern of really relaxed fit chinos with a single forward pleat. That's a thing. But it's not ivy style, it's meant for a different set of aesthetics.

Chino fabrics might wrinkle or age in a way that doesn't look great with pleats. Personally, that's my concern, more than matching a fabric's usual formality to a detail's usual formality.

Chino's a versatile fabric. If you have a vision, you can get it done. But don't just get pleats because you like pleats in general -- get pleated chinos because you want pleated chinos. Or don't.

 

[Dan Dynamic]

Well... Pleats can certainly be a traditional, dressy feature in some contexts.

Traditional "Ivy" style is certainly focused on flat front chinos. They're definitely the "norm," and the most basic / bland / versatile pant you can have, at least if they're in a neutral color. Is that what you want?

On the other hand, a lot of cool brands are using pleats these days. Particularly, I noticed a pattern of really relaxed fit chinos with a single forward pleat. That's a thing. But it's not ivy style, it's meant for a different set of aesthetics.

Chino fabrics might wrinkle or age in a way that doesn't look great with pleats. Personally, that's my concern, more than matching a fabric's usual formality to a detail's usual formality.

Chino's a versatile fabric. If you have a vision, you can get it done. But don't just get pleats because you like pleats in general -- get pleated chinos because you want pleated chinos. Or don't.

I am particularily interested in Ivy style. The wrinkles and ageing of the chinos is what concerns me. But I still want the pleats given their added comfort. It is kind of a dilemma - on one hand I want the ivy style aesthetic, and on the other hand I want added comfort.

I browsed the homepage of Drake's and stumbled upon some single pleated chinos. They look good I think. Can't say how they will age through.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

I am particularily interested in Ivy style. The wrinkles and ageing of the chinos is what concerns me. But I still want the pleats given their added comfort. It is kind of a dilemma - on one hand I want the ivy style aesthetic, and on the other hand I want added comfort.

I browsed the homepage of Drake's and stumbled upon some single pleated chinos. They look good I think. Can't say how they will age through.

Well, you could achieve that comfort with a relaxed fit, you don't necessarily need pleats. Too relaxed, though, and it's not strictly ivy anymore.

There is precedent for pleats in ivy, but you're going to be breaking the "modern rules" of the aesthetic. If you really don't like the way pleats look, keep searching for a fit and fabric that works with a flat front. But if you do like the Drake's single pleats, give them a try. Just be careful posting them to the Ivy Style Facebook group, those people are *strict* and don't care if you look good.

In my experience, dry-textured chinos don't wrinle and sag as badly as waxy-textured chinos. I'm not sure if those descriptors make any actual sense, I don't think chinos are often actually waxed cotton, I'm just describing the distinction the way ug feels to me.

 

[mhip]

Plus.....you could run into this:

 

[maxalex]

One way to think about this issue is to consider the rise of the trousers. To me, high-rise trousers are more comfortable with pleats, but most chinos these days are low-rise (like jeans), and don't really benefit from pleats when it comes to comfort. (Your body may feel otherwise.) High-rise chinos feel more formal--I own several pair, with pleats, and I generally wear them with a jacket. But I also have low-rise casual chinos without pleats.

 

[Dan Dynamic]

One way to think about this issue is to consider the rise of the trousers. To me, high-rise trousers are more comfortable with pleats, but most chinos these days are low-rise (like jeans), and don't really benefit from pleats when it comes to comfort. (Your body may feel otherwise.) High-rise chinos feel more formal--I own several pair, with pleats, and I generally wear them with a jacket. But I also have low-rise casual chinos without pleats.

Thanks. I was wondering whether I should get high rise, double forward pleated chinos but was afraid that the chinos was going to age poorly and thus the wrinkles would disrupt the clean vertical lines of the pleats. What is your experience?

 

[maxalex]

Thanks. I was wondering whether I should get high rise, double forward pleated chinos but was afraid that the chinos was going to age poorly and thus the wrinkles would disrupt the clean vertical lines of the pleats. What is your experience?

I'm not sure what you mean by aging poorly. Cotton won't hold pleat creases as well as worsted wool, if that's what you mean. Chinos are chinos, it's not a suit. Just iron them after washing.

 

[Harwid]

Ugh. No pleats on chinos. They might feel comfortable, but they look terrible.

I prefer a clean look with my clothes.

Jeff

 

[maxalex]

Ugh. No pleats on chinos. They might feel comfortable, but they look terrible.

I prefer a clean look with my clothes.

Jeff

With chinos I tend to agree--flat front is best. But with tailored woolen and even linen trousers, I like pleats.

 

[Dan Dynamic]

With chinos I tend to agree--flat front is best. But with tailored woolen and even linen trousers, I like pleats.

Would you recommend some other type of twill trousers other than chinos that does not wrinkle and look good with pleats?

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

Would you recommend some other type of twill trousers other than chinos that does not wrinkle and look good with pleats?

Well, twill is just a weave. You could get wool twill, or even linen twill (although the usual weave for linen would be the linen weave), Twill cotton can be chino or denim or fabrics that don't quite feel like either.

Is there a particular reason you want "twill" as opposed to other weaves?

If you want cotton, pleated corduroy can be cool. But corduroy isn't twill. Corduroy can be dressed up a fair bit, especially with dressy details, but also has a fair bit of the casual energy of cotton. It might sag with age, but it might not.

One note... One of the main advantages of corduroy, as a pile cotton, is that it's super spongy to all kinds of dyes. So pick a color that's going to count. Gray cords are sad. Get deep rich blue, burgundy, green, even purple, but don't get gray. (Or do, some people like gray corduroy for some reason).

 

[jack webb]

To my mind pleats on chinos are discordant, a casual or semi-casual pant adorned with a feature often associated with tailored clothing.

 

[Dan Dynamic]

Well, twill is just a weave. You could get wool twill, or even linen twill (although the usual weave for linen would be the linen weave), Twill cotton can be chino or denim or fabrics that don't quite feel like either.

Is there a particular reason you want "twill" as opposed to other weaves?

If you want cotton, pleated corduroy can be cool. But corduroy isn't twill. Corduroy can be dressed up a fair bit, especially with dressy details, but also has a fair bit of the casual energy of cotton. It might sag with age, but it might not.

One note... One of the main advantages of corduroy, as a pile cotton, is that it's super spongy to all kinds of dyes. So pick a color that's going to count. Gray cords are sad. Get deep rich blue, burgundy, green, even purple, but don't get gray. (Or do, some people like gray corduroy for some reason).

I did not know why I mentioned twill particularly. It is rather that I would like to fill the gap between tailored wool trousers and chinos. I am looking for something not as formal as wool trousers, but still not as casual as chinos - something that is congruent with pleats but still, despite their association with tailored clothing, projects kind of a "put everybody to ease" image (in other words an image being the opposite to a power suit/authoritarian image. I feel my wording may be a bit vague but I do not really know how to word it in other ways.

You mentioned corduroy, that is a good suggestion. I will probably get a few of them as autumn arrives. I was thinking of some type of herringbone, tweed trousers as well but obviously such trousers are not really suitable for all seasons.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

I did not know why I mentioned twill particularly. It is rather that I would like to fill the gap between tailored wool trousers and chinos. I am looking for something not as formal as wool trousers, but still not as casual as chinos - something that is congruent with pleats but still, despite their association with tailored clothing, projects kind of a "put everybody to ease" image (in other words an image being the opposite to a power suit/authoritarian image. I feel my wording may be a bit vague but I do not really know how to word it in other ways.

You mentioned corduroy, that is a good suggestion. I will probably get a few of them as autumn arrives. I was thinking of some type of herringbone, tweed trousers as well but obviously such trousers are not really suitable for all seasons.

So, if your goal is to put people at ease, I'd kind of avoid pleats. Pleats tend to make people think you're kind of stuffy, or at least stand out as old-timey. A high rise tends to have a similar effect.

I mean, after seeing you a few times, they might get used to it. Especially if you're not wearing a jacket. If you go with pleated cords, but wear a sweater over it for a cozy vibe, you might project "warm grandpa" instead of "vintage menswear geek" or "republican" (which, regardless of your political affiliation, is not a good look).

But somebody like... Ethan Wong manages to make tailoring look chill by taking advantage of what he calls "slouch," and his friends just get used to the idea that he might wear a suit to grab a burger.

You generally want to focus on textures -- a fuzzy woolen flannel, for example, instead of a sleek worsted twill. Chunky casual loafers instead of sleek patina'd oxfords. Casusal details that people can feel by looking at you.

If you can build that personal identity, then the people working with you will understand your style as part of your personality instead of the jarring quirk style is when strangers look at you.