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Oxxford Type A vs 1220

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Legal Eagle, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Well, I'm still shopping for a quality suit for my wedding. I've been checking out a lot of MTM options as well as the BB Select program (not MTM) and some ebay options from the likes of topshelfapparel. BB select was very reasonable, but not sure on quality. I could probably do a 3 piece 120s for around $1,100 (10% off promotion, plus 15% if open a BB card).

    I tried on a PRL (Blue Label) suit in store the other day. I believe it may have been a Polo III. It was actually a 42 regular, with only a BOC lenght of just a tad over 30 inches, and it fit well. Problem was that it did not have peak lapel, and a MTM option, even with the promotion right now is within the $1,700 range for a base fabric.

    Regarding Oxxford, I saw a 1220 model and a Type A model on ebay, NWT. I was wondering just how much difference in cut there are between the two. It apears the 1220, in the same short size lenght, is .5 inches shorter, BOC, and .5 inches smaller in chest. Shoulders were the same, leg opening the same (9 inches), etc. Other differences are hand padded lapel for type A, flat front pants for 1220. I understand the 1220 is supposed to be slimmer, but by how much? Do people size up from their normal size?

    Anyone try both these Oxxford suits on, or have experience with both to comment on the differences? I'm a 42 short kind of guy, 36 inch waist, and aspiring to lose weight.
     
  2. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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  3. HalfCanvas

    HalfCanvas Senior member

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    They are very close. For me, type A is a bit narrower in the shoulders -- but only just bit. Type A may also be more suited to people with sloped shoulders. The 1220 quality is pretty indistinguishable from type A for me.
     
  4. HalfCanvas

    HalfCanvas Senior member

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    Oh, and I would not size up or down in either model.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  5. cropknox

    cropknox Active Member

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    I'm not a devote of Oxxford or anything, so take this with a grain of salt, but for what it's worth . . .

    Oxxford is known for two things: (1) very high quality; (2) very conservative styling (read: boxy old guy/politician cuts). The 1220 line is an attempt to capture a new, younger clientele. As part of this initiative, the1220 line has a lower price point -- hence less hand finishing -- and a slimmer cut.

    That said, looking at those comparative measurements you posted, it doesn't seem like you'd need to size up on the 1220 cut. Oxxford is such a trad company it's hard to imagine them making a fashion-skinny suit . . .
     
  6. TonyThe Tailor

    TonyThe Tailor Senior member

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    There is no difference between them. Type A is the model, 1220 is the make. The same paper is made to make each garment whether it is in the HQ make or 1220. These are hand cut and sewn, so the tolerance is around 3/8" (as opposed to machine cut and sewn garments which is less than 1/4").

    The Type A (and Type B which is the same but with a fuller chest) are Oxxford's interpretation of the modern suit and is a damn good one, not at all boxy, but no too extreme in tightness.
     
  7. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Well, no, I thought there was a difference. Let me better explain. The Type A is the Radcliff model, and the 1220, just says that, 1220. The 1220 has the red Oxxford interior chest label. I do believe they are two completely different lines. I am a 42 short, but I saw a Type A Radcliff 44 S and a 1220 44 short, the latter with measurements pretty much exactly the same as a Joseph Abboud 42 short suit that I have, other than being about .75 inches larger in chest. I do trust the measurements on both Oxxfords because they are being sold by a highly rated ebay seller and forum member.

    That being said, I will probably not go up to the 44 short, because 1) I am working on losing weight, and 2) even though the shoulders are pretty spot on, I imagine taking in the chest by much is not easily done well or cheap. I will just be more patient. Thank you guys with Oxxford experiences. It's just one of those high end suits that not even our Neiman Marcus carries, in stock, anymore.

     
  8. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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    My apologies Tony, I do see what you are saying now. I think part of it, though, was that I did not specify the style name "Radcliff" in my original post when referring to what I called the "Type A" Oxxford.
     
  9. HalfCanvas

    HalfCanvas Senior member

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    The "Radcliffe" reference could be to the pants. It could be a suit with a "Type A" coat and "Radcliffe" pants.

    Tony, it's interesting that you say the 1220 is cut on the same pattern as the Highest Quality Type A. I have both and, while almost identical, I did find the shoulders on the 1220 fit more cleanly on my shoulder line. Maybe I am imagining things though. Either way, it's a great cut -- trim and very soft.
     
  10. Harper

    Harper Active Member

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    I also found them pretty similar but I much preferred the fit of the main line to the 1220. One thing I have noticed is that I find the fabrics much nicer on the main line than on the 1220.
     
  11. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Since I prefer a more natural shoulder (e.g. PRL), should I side more towards the Type A Highest Quality over the 1200? I mean, is the shoulder padding different? Also, I have shoulders, which while I am not sure how to describe them, almost always caused a wrinkle in the center back of my shoulder blades, which usually is easily fixed with alterations. I don't know if that means I have sloped shoulders or not. Also, what are the characteristics of the Radcliffe pant?
     
  12. HalfCanvas

    HalfCanvas Senior member

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    The Radcliffe pant is Oxxford's slimmer pant, I believe. It can come in reverse pleats or flat front, however, so make sure you look at the auction listing to the extent that detail is important for you. I'd call it a moderately slim pant. Just ask the seller for measurements if you need them. The Type A and 1220 shoulders have virtually no padding -- just a very thin layer.
     
  13. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    Here is some info to clarify. Oxxford now has two lines - 'Highest Quality' and '1220', and there are different models within each line.

    Both use full-canvas construction. However, the HQ line features more handwork, hand-padded lapels, and premium fabrics (140s and up). Retail on the 1220 suits is around $2500 for basic fabrics, up to around $3000 for special fabrics. The HQ line starts at around $4000 and goes up to $5000 or more for top-end fabrics.

    Most of the Highest Quality line are the Type-A model, which is the slim-fit. The Type-A has a somewhat Neapolitan cut, with higher armholes and very light shoulder padding. The fit is similar to Isaia 'Base V' or Zegna 'Fit Milano'.

    'Radcliff' refers to the model of the trousers, available in both Flat-Front and Dual Reverse Pleats. The 'Radcliff' features a trimmer-leg, mid-rise, and the waist generally runs 1" smaller than the tagged size.

    The main 1220 model is the '1220 N2'. The fit is similar to the Type-A, though with a tiny bit more room through the chest and shoulders and slightly more padding (but still light). The 1220 N2 model always comes with flat-front pants.

    The 1220 line also uses the 'Capitol N2' model, which sometimes comes with single-pleat trousers. The Capitol N2 is more of a moderate fit, but by no means 'full-cut'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  14. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Vman. Very helpful. You see the two suits I am looking at now. Funny how the Radcliffe pants measure smaller than the size marked, or at least interesting. I hope to do business with you soon.
     
  15. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    They have about 2" of material inside the waistband that can be let out as needed. Always happy to work out a deal, just send me a message.
     
  16. Legal Eagle

    Legal Eagle Well-Known Member

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  17. TonyThe Tailor

    TonyThe Tailor Senior member

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    As a long time Oxxford dealer, I know for a fact that it is identical paper. The difference is hand-made garments are not always the exact same from garment to garment because of the human element, and the tolerance is greater (3/8") that those of machine made and computer cut garments (1/4"), that is why they will fit a little different from garment to garment, but not too different.
    The Capitol Model (Type B) is the same as Type A but with a fuller chest.
     
  18. cbbuff

    cbbuff Senior member

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    I have purchased two Oxxford Type-A suits from VMan, and he was great to work with and the suits are kick ass - better than any of the Brioni, Borrelli or RLPL I have.
     

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