In the course of scanning the interminable "Black Suit" thread, I noticed that Manton, in the course of declaring The Rules, stated the bluchers/derbies were incorrect with an in-town business suit. That one was a real shocker to me. Yes, I have been aware for some time that oxfords/bals were inherently dressier than bluchers. No, I wouldn't wear bluchers with a morning suit, but otherwise I always have assumed conservative, dressy bluchers are totally appropriate for wear with a business suit. I note that a good many people who presume to give counsel on men's style and apparel are obviously a bit dim about the nice distinction between bluchers and oxfords/bals. Lloyd Boston, the ineffable Carson Kressey, the authors of "A Gentleman Gets Dressed Up," the authors of "Lands' End Business Attire for Men"--all of them use a picture of a blucher to illustrate "the oxford" [sic]. Not even as formidable a prescriptivist as "Master" Flusser states the bluchers are inappropriate for wear with a business suit. All this leads me to believe that this is one rule that is dead letter. Maybe it was cogent back in 1931...but it hasn't been for a long time. Anyway, I will throw the floor open to fellow forumites for their opinions on this matter.