Need advice on 3 MTM sport coats

[alghul]

Hello,

I just received 3 sport coats from PC today. Those are the first jackets I buy from them so the fit is not quite there yet. I have 2 free remake for each jacket but I would like to nail the fit for the next one if possible. At least, in the areas that can't be fixed by a tailor (ex. shoulders & sleeves unless cut from the shoulders).

I think I have an idea of what's wrong with them but I would appreciate some advice on what needs to be tailored and what fits right.

First, all 3 of them are extremely comfortable and wear just like sweaters which is what I am looking for.

Here is what I think about the jackets. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

1. All 3 jackets have the sleeves too wide and way too long.
2. All 3 jackets have a small collar gap on the right. I think it's due to my posture. Can a tailor fix that?
3. The tweed jacket feels a bit bigger and may be too big on the shoulders and maybe the body as well. Compared to the other 2, it wears bigger.
4. The camel colored jacket feels fine in the shoulders but not sure whether or not a bit smaller would be better. I think the body is fine.
5. The blue jacket fits very good (it has the lighter fabric of the 3). The only thing I would change or alter are the sleeves and the collar gap.

I know they are very wrinkled but they were just out of the bag when I took the pictures.

@dieworkwear Don't hate me for tagging you again but I am in need of your wisdom.

I appreciate the advice.

 

[dieworkwear]

The biggest problem I see is the collar gap. My understanding is that there are different things that can cause this problem. Sometimes it's because the coat isn't cut for your posture. Other times, it's because the coat's shoulders are too squared or sloping for your natural shoulders. How to fix this issue depends on what's causing it and what are the seam allowances inside. Best to see a tailor.

The back blades and back of the sleeve also look a bit messy and can probably be cleaned up.

From your photos, my impression is that you stand with your shoulders hunched and neck forward (I do as well, this is common nowadays). When you visit a tailor to get advice, you may want to pay attention to this issue to see/ hear how it affects the fit of your coat. Knowing your natural posture and fitting issues will help you get a better coat in the future.

There's a tailor's feedback thread, where Despos is active. You will get better feedback from him.

The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

Fit is one of the most important yet overlooked elements of style. A garment can be made of an elegant fabric and constructed with fancy details. But if it doesn't fit, it won't look good or feel good. While standards of fit are influenced by personal taste and fashion, they are largely based...

www.styleforum.net

 

[alghul]

The biggest problem I see is the collar gap. My understanding is that there are different things that can cause this problem. Sometimes it's because the coat isn't cut for your posture. Other times, it's because the coat's shoulders are too squared or sloping for your natural shoulders. How to fix this issue depends on what's causing it and what are the seam allowances inside. Best to see a tailor.

The back blades and back of the sleeve also look a bit messy and can probably be cleaned up.

From your photos, my impression is that you stand with your shoulders hunched and neck forward (I do as well, this is common nowadays). When you visit a tailor to get advice, you may want to pay attention to this issue to see/ hear how it affects the fit of your coat. Knowing your natural posture and fitting issues will help you get a better coat in the future.

There's a tailor's feedback thread, where Despos is active. You will get better feedback from him.

The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

Fit is one of the most important yet overlooked elements of style. A garment can be made of an elegant fabric and constructed with fancy details. But if it doesn't fit, it won't look good or feel good. While standards of fit are influenced by personal taste and fashion, they are largely based...

www.styleforum.net

Yeah my posture is terrible and has been for a while. That's pretty unfortunate.

Would you mind explaining what you mean by back blades?

Moreover, minus the issues you just mentioned, do you see a problem with the size of the jackets?

For example, would you take the jackets in a little or you think they fit good as is?

As for the shoulders, are they fine for the tweed as well?

Thanks again

 

[dieworkwear]

I meant the areas here. It's normal to have excess fabric drape along the edge of the armhole. Not all tailors leave fabric here, but some do. Leaving a bit of material here will allow for more comfortable movement. But when your arms are down, this area should present itself fairly cleanly. The excess material should drape neatly along the armhole.

I'm afraid I don't have a photo on hand to easily show what I mean. But we can illustrate this same effect by looking at the front part of the coat. The fullness you see in this area is a result of the cutting. The excess material is draping along the edge of the chest.

You can also see the effect here. Notice how the edge of the chest curves outward. Also notice how neatly the excess fabric drapes.

The back of this coat is built the same way. The excess fabric also allows for more comfortable movement.

Tom Mahon is a bespoke tailor who used to work at Anderson & Sheppard. According to him in this video, they used to leave a lot of material on the underside of the sleeve to allow for even more movement. I can't attest to how A&S coats looked when he was there, but I have an Anderson & Sheppard coat that was made for me in 2016. The sleeve is fairly clean. I don't know if I would want the excess fabric he describes here, but the video may help you understand this concept.





Your coat, however, doesn't isn't built with this same "drape" effect. Instead, it just looks messy to me. I'm mainly pointing out that you don't always want this area to be super clean, as it can restrict movement. However, it should be neat.

The shoulders on your coat also look a bit too wide for you, but once the collar gap issue is corrected, I would want to see how the shoulder line looks before taking in the shoulders.

My usual feeling on this stuff is that online feedback can help you understand tailoring, but you ultimately need to find someone with skilled hands who can fix the problems for you. If that person is genuinely skilled, they don't need your direction. If they are not skilled, no amount of micromanaging will make them better, as you're not a tailor. So the bigger challenge is finding someone who can assess you in person and see what can be fixed. I would call a few stores that sell high-end tailored clothing and ask them for recommendations to local tailors. Call a few places and see if the same name shows up multiple times. Then take one of the coats there for assessment. Good tailors typically speak in very straightforward ways. They can help you understand what needs to be fixed. If you have confidence in their comments, then give them the coat to fix in person.

 

[alghul]

I meant the areas here. It's normal to have excess fabric drape along the edge of the armhole. Not all tailors leave fabric here, but some do. Leaving a bit of material here will allow for more comfortable movement. But when your arms are down, this area should present itself fairly cleanly. The excess material should drape neatly along the armhole.


View attachment 1693488


I'm afraid I don't have a photo on hand to easily show what I mean. But we can illustrate this same effect by looking at the front part of the coat. The fullness you see in this area is a result of the cutting. The excess material is draping along the edge of the chest.


View attachment 1693490



You can also see the effect here. Notice how the edge of the chest curves outward. Also notice how neatly the excess fabric drapes.


View attachment 1693491


The back of this coat is built the same way. The excess fabric also allows for more comfortable movement.

View attachment 1693492


Tom Mahon is a bespoke tailor who used to work at Anderson & Sheppard. According to him in this video, they used to leave a lot of material on the underside of the sleeve to allow for even more movement. I can't attest to how A&S coats looked when he was there, but I have an Anderson & Sheppard coat that was made for me in 2016. The sleeve is fairly clean. I don't know if I would want the excess fabric he describes here, but the video may help you understand this concept.





Your coat, however, doesn't isn't built with this same "drape" effect. Instead, it just looks messy to me. I'm mainly pointing out that you don't always want this area to be super clean, as it can restrict movement. However, it should be neat.

The shoulders on your coat also look a bit too wide for you, but once the collar gap issue is corrected, I would want to see how the shoulder line looks before taking in the shoulders.

My usual feeling on this stuff is that online feedback can help you understand tailoring, but you ultimately need to find someone with skilled hands who can fix the problems for you. If that person is genuinely skilled, they don't need your direction. If they are not skilled, no amount of micromanaging will make them better, as you're not a tailor. So the bigger challenge is finding someone who can assess you in person and see what can be fixed. I would call a few stores that sell high-end tailored clothing and ask them for recommendations to local tailors. Call a few places and see if the same name shows up multiple times. Then take one of the coats there for assessment. Good tailors typically speak in very straightforward ways. They can help you understand what needs to be fixed. If you have confidence in their comments, then give them the coat to fix in person.

Thanks for all the advices.

I will ask PC to at least fix the sleeves and send it back to me since I don't feel like spending 250$ just to shorten the sleeves from the shoulders and then bring them to a tailor.

Cheers

 

[dieworkwear]

If you have the option, I would ask them for a sleeve without the buttonholes cut. It would be better for you to get the sleeves adjusted in-person by a tailor, where they can see the coat's sleeve in relationship to your shirt sleeves. Buttonholes cost about $10 per machine-made buttonhole, and sport coats only need one to three buttons per sleeve, depending on your preference.

 

[breakaway01]

I wouldn’t burn a remake just on the sleeves. It’d be worth trying to fix the collar gap as well; it’d help if you took a picture from the side as well. It might be due to a forward neck posture as suggested. One more thing—it’s difficult to tell from the photos, but I wonder whether the buttoning point could be lowered just a bit. I like mine at or just above my natural waist.

 

[alghul]

@dieworkwear

I asked PC before I ordered them and they told me it was not possible which is a shame. Being able to buy with no button holes should be an option. Even if everything on the jackets would have been perfect (minus the sleeves), I would have needed to return it anyway; which is ridiculous when you think about it. I will push again for it. As for the buttons, are 3 buttons sleeves standard? I never really thought about it much.

@breakaway01

No, I asked them to fix everyting that I thought was wrong with the jackets. It's just that a trip to the tailer would have probably suffice if it was not for the sleeves so that's why I need to send it back.

My neck is definitely leaning forward and my shoulders hunching which is pretty difficult to fix when buying from an online MTM. I think my best bet is to ask for a second alteration to fix what only they can fix and taking the tailor allowance they provide to finish it up instead of sending it back again for a second time. I think they give 75US. Probably will not cover everything if they don't manage to fix the color gap but it's better than nothing.

I don't know much about buttoning points. What would having it lower achieve? A better fit or is it mainly aesthetic?

 

[breakaway01]

I don't know much about buttoning points. What would having it lower achieve? A better fit or is it mainly aesthetic?

I am not sure from the photos that this is necessary, but a common issue with today’s tailored jackets is that the buttoning point is too high. This shortens the line of the lapel and reduces the triangular space where you’d see your shirt (and tie if you’re wearing one). Visually this shortens your torso.
Lowering the buttoning point in this situation elongates the lapel line. Relatively small changes (0.5”) can have a substantial effect
visually. Just check your jacket to see where the buttoning point lies relative to your natural waist (the narrowest part of your torso—you’re slim so this works). I like mine to be 0-0.5” above my natural waist as a general rule of thumb.

 

[dieworkwear]

@dieworkwear

I asked PC before I ordered them and they told me it was not possible which is a shame. Being able to buy with no button holes should be an option. Even if everything on the jackets would have been perfect (minus the sleeves), I would have needed to return it anyway; which is ridiculous when you think about it. I will push again for it. As for the buttons, are 3 buttons sleeves standard? I never really thought about it much.

Partly a matter of taste, but I think sport coats look best with one, two, or three buttons. One is very sporty, but you need to use a bigger button to get this right. Two buttons is an old Ivy style detail, but the buttons have to be spaced apart just-so for it to look correct. Three buttons is easiest -- waterfall or kissing positioning is fine.

 

[DapperPhilly]

I meant the areas here. It's normal to have excess fabric drape along the edge of the armhole. Not all tailors leave fabric here, but some do. Leaving a bit of material here will allow for more comfortable movement. But when your arms are down, this area should present itself fairly cleanly. The excess material should drape neatly along the armhole.


View attachment 1693488


I'm afraid I don't have a photo on hand to easily show what I mean. But we can illustrate this same effect by looking at the front part of the coat. The fullness you see in this area is a result of the cutting. The excess material is draping along the edge of the chest.


View attachment 1693490



You can also see the effect here. Notice how the edge of the chest curves outward. Also notice how neatly the excess fabric drapes.


View attachment 1693491


The back of this coat is built the same way. The excess fabric also allows for more comfortable movement.

View attachment 1693492


Tom Mahon is a bespoke tailor who used to work at Anderson & Sheppard. According to him in this video, they used to leave a lot of material on the underside of the sleeve to allow for even more movement. I can't attest to how A&S coats looked when he was there, but I have an Anderson & Sheppard coat that was made for me in 2016. The sleeve is fairly clean. I don't know if I would want the excess fabric he describes here, but the video may help you understand this concept.





Your coat, however, doesn't isn't built with this same "drape" effect. Instead, it just looks messy to me. I'm mainly pointing out that you don't always want this area to be super clean, as it can restrict movement. However, it should be neat.

The shoulders on your coat also look a bit too wide for you, but once the collar gap issue is corrected, I would want to see how the shoulder line looks before taking in the shoulders.

My usual feeling on this stuff is that online feedback can help you understand tailoring, but you ultimately need to find someone with skilled hands who can fix the problems for you. If that person is genuinely skilled, they don't need your direction. If they are not skilled, no amount of micromanaging will make them better, as you're not a tailor. So the bigger challenge is finding someone who can assess you in person and see what can be fixed. I would call a few stores that sell high-end tailored clothing and ask them for recommendations to local tailors. Call a few places and see if the same name shows up multiple times. Then take one of the coats there for assessment. Good tailors typically speak in very straightforward ways. They can help you understand what needs to be fixed. If you have confidence in their comments, then give them the coat to fix in person.

I have had the same problem until I realized it is caused by my shoulder slope which is not to be confused with narrow shoulders.

 

[alghul]

Partly a matter of taste, but I think sport coats look best with one, two, or three buttons. One is very sporty, but you need to use a bigger button to get this right. Two buttons is an old Ivy style detail, but the buttons have to be spaced apart just-so for it to look correct. Three buttons is easiest -- waterfall or kissing positioning is fine.

Decided to bring 2 of my jackets to the tailor (returned the third one). What needed to be done was a bit too much and I felt that no matter how many times I would send them back, it would be hard to fix.

I am quite happy with the work he did. He fixed the collar gap, cleaned the back a bit, took the jacket in etc.. Overall, I feel the fit is now much better.

Before the alterations we didn't really agree on the sleeve length. I sent him some work beforehand as a test which I was perfectly happy with so I assumed it would be the case with those as well. However, this is not the case. I think the sleeves are still too long. By a hair but enough to bother me since my shirt's cuff is not showing. IYO, am I right to think this is long enough to look funny?

He cut both jackets from the shoulders so it wasn't cheap. Moreover, since we didn't really agree on the length, there is no way he's going to redo the work for free.

So I have 2 options. Suck it up and leave it as is. A bit disappointing since I paid good money to have them perfect.

Have them cut slightly from the hem. The distance between the edge of the sleeve and the middle of the last button is 1.7'' on both jacket. What room do I have before it looks terrible?

Thanks again for the advise.

 

[dieworkwear]

The sleeves are a hair long. To be honest, I think a different silhouette would be better for you. I don't know if I would pour more money into those coats. Would just leave as-is, wear them for a while, and start developing your eye for what fits you better. The coats do fit better than before -- collar gap, etc are fixed. But the silhouette is not very flattering.

It can take many years to find what fits and flatters you best, so this is a normal learning curve. Keep trying different coats, follow good Instagram accounts to develop your eye, and read more about tailoring. No real shortcut to this process.

 

[alghul]

The sleeves are a hair long. To be honest, I think a different silhouette would be better for you. I don't know if I would pour more money into those coats. Would just leave as-is, wear them for a while, and start developing your eye for what fits you better. The coats do fit better than before -- collar gap, etc are fixed. But the silhouette is not very flattering.

It can take many years to find what fits and flatters you best, so this is a normal learning curve. Keep trying different coats, follow good Instagram accounts to develop your eye, and read more about tailoring. No real shortcut to this process.

Thanks man. If I may, what do you mean when you say the silhouette is not very flattering? The style/brand of the coats or the way it has been tailored?

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks man. If I may, what do you mean when you say the silhouette is not very flattering? The style/brand of the coats or the way it has been tailored?

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