Narrow waist or not?

[MarcellHUN]

As a shoemaker I have this question many times. I consider this problem as a style question, but I would like to hear your opinion - surely those members who have experience with both design.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by MarcellHUN

I consider this problem as a style question......

A narrow waist, particular in connection with an extended heel counter, gives an unrivalled level of comfort and support to the back foot.
It just cradles the foot and the arch as snugly as a Russian doll within the doll.

It is not solely a question of style and aesthetics; it is a question of (superior) fit.

 

[MarcellHUN]

Thanks, but I didn't mean this. My bad English..
Narrow waist shouldn't mean any difference in comfort - a wide cut and skived insole (which is independent of the waist - I just make a shoe like this), gives the same comfort. Actually I use assymetric heel counters in all the shoes.

 

[SpallaCamiccia]

That looks absolutely stylish.

I wish my shoes had that sole. Is it far more expensive to add?

 

[w.o.e.is.me.]

absolutely yes.

 

[Cary Grant]

I have long, narrow, feet. I've found that well-fitted shoes with narrow waists make my feet appear sleeker and smaller. Personally, I love the look.

Aesthetically, I also thing it significantly sets the shoe apart as a sign of quality, whether others notice or not.

 

[nahneun]

that looks beautiful

 

[LynahFaithful]

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

I have long, narrow, feet. I've found that well-fitted shoes with narrow waists make my feet appear sleeker and smaller. Personally, I love the look.

Aesthetically, I also thing it significantly sets the shoe apart as a sign of quality, whether others notice or not.

CG - Same problem for me and I agree with you in every respect.

Marcell - I got another fine compliment on my shoes the other day. People do notice.

 

[southbound35]

I do see and appreciate the beauty of the narrow waist. Some of the G&G shoes (and other bespoke shoes with narrow waists) I've seen on this forum are amazing.

But, as more of a middle of the road guy who works with and is friends with people who couldn't care less about last shape or corrected grain vs. antiqued museum calf, I can't imagine wearing a pair of shoes like that to work. I would even feel like "that guy" wearing them with an elegant suit to a wedding.

Not to sound like the guy who is worried about which watch is manliest, but I think there is a line in mens dress shoes where they go from being masculine to "too pretty". I think the very narrow waist crosses that line.

I have a feeling I'm among the small minority on this forum with this opinion. But, I did want to place a vote as a more moderate Style Forvmite.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by southbound35

Not to sound like the guy who is worried about which watch is manliest, but I think there is a line in mens dress shoes where they go from being masculine to "too pretty". I think the very narrow waist crosses that line. I have a feeling I'm among the small minority on this forum with this opinion. But, I did want to place a vote as a more moderate Style Forvmite.
Not to gainsay you in any way but usually there is some relationship to the insole width in the waist and the outsole width in the waist...at least from the maker's perspective. It is almost counter-productive to cut the insole wide through the waist if the foot isn't even going to touch the insole all the way across. This only creates stiffness where it is not wanted and sometimes the upper itself won't fit the foot correctly because the insole is preventing it from conforming to the foot. Standard sized lasts, or lasts that come from dedicated lastmakers (not hand carved), often come with with what is known as a "bottom paper." This is an outline of width, length, and the precise shape of the insole as conceived by the modelmaker--the guy who designed the last. You would be surprised how narrow they are in the waist. Of course, some makers ignore that information but it can be important for all kinds of reasons. So...I was taught (and note a similar philosophy demonstrated in many highly regarded makers' work) that in the waist, the width of the outsole should not exceed the width of the insole, by more than a fraction when the shoe is finished. This gives a very sleek and elegant look in my opinion and is not all that easy to accomplish, much less control. Some aspects of shoemaking are ornamental...for aesthetics only...some are entirely functional, some are a combination of both--where function evolves toward form--and some features are just plain hard to explain or justify.

 

[janne melkersson]

Marcel,
I consider this mostly as a style or fashion question too. But not about clients that needs support would it be on the medial or lateral side if so you need to adjust the insole accordingly.

I was taught to make bespoke shoes with a "high cut" on the medial side of the insole which gives it the shape of an insert i.e. a wide insole. But nothing of this will be visible on the finnished shoe. The maker decide where to put the holdfast (the lip he/she make on the insole to sew the welt on) independent on where the edge of the insole is. If nothing is specially asked for regarding the waist I choose to make it differently if it is going to be a square waist (broader) then a bevelled (narrower) waist. Also, the heavier footwear the broader the waist. All this on the same last for the same client.


However, a narrow waist can tell you something about the maker becasue it is harder to stitch the sole with a good result the narrower the waist is. At least that is my experience.

 

[ajv]

Marcel,

I love narrow waists, but my foot is rather narrow and my arch very important, which allows the shoe-maker to go really deep inside.
I also like my arch to be very well supported, which again, for a foot like mine is rather difficult to be achieved in RTW, as most human have a flatter foot then mine.
From the various discussions I have had with shoemakers, there is also a question of balance, when deciding to go very narrow, that has to be respected.
And like Janne said, it also shows the expertise of the shoe-maker.

Adrian

 

[bengal-stripe]

Here is a narrow waist that is likely to be a fashion item and nothing else.

I cannot believe that either the insole nor the last corresponds to that particular waist.
Virtually all commercial lasts have a flat bottom with a wide and generous waist.

(If the waist on a commercial last is too defined, you'll have a number of people who cannot get into the shoe.
If the waist is too generous for some people, they are likely not to notice, that a tightening-up would be better.)

 

[janne melkersson]

Here is photos of how an insole could be cut and it shows what i was talking of. As you can see the insole is pretty much as wide as it can be but the shape of the waist will be according to the holdfast. Doing this way the maker can make an narrow waist even for clients who need support on the medial side because the "high cut" add strenght and support.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by janne melkersson

Here is photos of how an insole could be cut and it shows what i was talking of. As you can see the insole is pretty much as wide as it can be but the shape of the waist will be according to the holdfast. Doing this way the maker can make an narrow waist even for clients who need support on the medial side because the "high cut" add strenght and support.
Janne, Here's a photo of Anthony Delos channeling an insole with a "high cut." It is perhaps a bit more extreme than your photo but clearly he intends to make a narrow waist. In all probability the outsole will actually be narrower than the insole.

And here's another...one of mine...cut almost exactly to the width of the bottom paper and also intended for a narrow waist. In this case the outsole will only be a hair wider than the insole and the welt will be somewhat narrower in the waist and trimmed right up to the edge of the insole so that outsole will be nearly invisible from above.

In all three cases (yours, Delos', mine), I suspect that the outsole will be beveled and fiddlebacked, resulting in something very like what Marcel posted--which to my eye is nearly as good as it gets in terms of being elegant and refined.