Narrow waist or not?

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by southbound35

Not to sound like the guy who is worried about which watch is manliest, but I think there is a line in mens dress shoes where they go from being masculine to "too pretty". I think the very narrow waist crosses that line.

I have a feeling I'm among the small minority on this forum with this opinion. But, I did want to place a vote as a more moderate Style Forvmite.

+1

 

[emptym]

Threads like this, with posts like the following, are why SF continues to be tremendously informative:

Originally Posted by MarcellHUN

As a shoemaker I have this question many times. I consider this problem as a style question, but I would like to hear your opinion - surely those members who have experience with both design.

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

A narrow waist, particular in connection with an extended heel counter, gives an unrivalled level of comfort and support to the back foot.
It just cradles the foot and the arch as snugly as a Russian doll within the doll.

It is not solely a question of style and aesthetics; it is a question of (superior) fit.

Originally Posted by janne melkersson

Here is photos of how an insole could be cut and it shows what i was talking of. As you can see the insole is pretty much as wide as it can be but the shape of the waist will be according to the holdfast. Doing this way the maker can make an narrow waist even for clients who need support on the medial side because the "high cut" add strenght and support.

Originally Posted by DWFII

Janne,

Here's a photo of Anthony Delos channeling an insole with a "high cut." It is perhaps a bit more extreme than your photo but clearly he intends to make a narrow waist. In all probability the outsole will actually be narrower than the insole.

And here's another...one of mine...cut almost exactly to the width of the bottom paper and also intended for a narrow waist. In this case the outsole will only be a hair wider than the outsole and the welt will be somewhat narrower in the waist and trimmed right up to the edge of the insole so that outsole will be nearly invisible from above.

In all three cases (yours, Delos', mine), I suspect that the outsole will be beveled and fiddlebacked, resulting in something very like what Marcel posted--which to my eye is nearly as good as it gets in terms of being elegant and refined.

Thanks guys.

 

[janne melkersson]

DW,

When you see different makers insoles lined up like this, it is obvious that they can be cut in many ways depending on the clients request, the shape of the foot and style choosed.

I am not a big fan of the "fiddleback" (if you by that mean a high ridge in the center of the waist) so this one is going to be beveled without it.

Btw, I have not heard the word fiddleback regarding shoes until I read about here on S.F. Do you or anyone else knows where it came from? However, I like the look of it on Cowboy boots.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by janne melkersson

Btw, I have not heard the word fiddleback regarding shoes until I read about here on S.F. Do you or anyone else knows where it came from? However, I like the look of it on Cowboy boots.

that's too funny...

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by janne melkersson

DW, When you see different makers insoles lined up like this, it is obvious that they can be cut in many ways depending on the clients request, the shape of the foot and style choosed. I am not a big fan of the "fiddleback" (if you by that mean a high ridge in the center of the waist) so this one is going to be beveled without it. Btw, I have not heard the word fiddleback regarding shoes until I read about here on S.F. Do you or anyone else knows where it came from? However, I like the look of it on Cowboy boots.
Janne, I never heard the term either until I came on SF. But it's so descriptive, I'm OK with it. Because I have made cowboy boots for nearly all my career, I am very fond of the fiddleback and beveled waist. But the fiddleback on a shoe is more of an artifact than it is on cowboy boots. Marcel's post at the beginning of this thread shows a waist more like what you'd see on one of my boots than the sharp ridge you see on some shoes. Either way I like it. I am especially fond of the waist treatment that you see on Jim McCormack's shoes.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by janne melkersson

Do you or anyone else knows where it came from?

From the back of a violin (fiddle):

Of course over the five or more centuries violins get built, some have a more pronounced rib than others,
but all violins have a shaped and convex back, unlike the back of a guitar which is virtually flat:

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by fritzl

that's too funny...
No, what would be funny...a great joke on us all...would be if it turned out that some of the best shoemakers in the world adopted a a fiddleback waist because they like the way it looked on cowboy boots.

 

[DWFII]

Many years ago I read an article about something that was called "box beam construction." If I recall correctly, it was oriented to shoemaking although the terminology almost certainly didn't arise in the shoemaking Trade.

But the gist of it was that, especially if you are not going to use a metal shank support (and many low heeled shoes do not), building a domed or pyramidal "cottage" over the shank area and then adding an outsole so that it creates a solid foundational structure, adds a rigidity that cannot be obtained by a flat leather or wooden shank alone.

 

[janne melkersson]

bengal,
thanks for photos, it shows well where the word came from.

It would be interesting to know if this is a traditionally option regarding the making or if it is something new and fancy. Anyway, I am sure that SF readers have contributed to make this popular around the shoemaking world.

 

[Wes Bourne]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

From the back of a violin (fiddle):

Of course over the five or more centuries violins get built, some have a more pronounced rib than others,
but all violins have a shaped and convex back, unlike the back of a guitar which is virtually flat:

My shoes have guitarbackâ„¢ soles.

 

[janne melkersson]

DW,
yea, Jim McCormack makes beautiful shoes. I don't know if he is a reader of this forum but he might know the history about it.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by janne melkersson

It would be interesting to know if this is a traditionally option regarding the making or if it is something new and fancy.

My "˜informant', (a Lobb-trained freelance maker) told me, although it is an old technique, but until relatively recently
it was used only on show- or exhibition pieces, but not on everyday work.

Until the end of WWII, there were quite a few shoemakers around and there were frequently competitions
going on, where shoemakers could show off their skills and, hopefully, got a medal to put up in their shop window.

So the fiddle back waist, the elusive 64 stitches to the inch and "˜pin work' were the piece de resistance in those exhibitions.

"˜Pin work', thousands of tiny nails decorate the sole and heel.

Picture (February 16th) from: http://www.gentlemanscorner.com/


I suppose 'pin work' (apart from some initials) and the 64 stitches per inch have gone for good and I believe, "pump stitched" is moribund.

Good that the fiddle back waist has survived somehow.

 

[janne melkersson]

bengal,
interesting info, thank you! Who knows, maybe the 64 spi will see the day light again. If no one reach that level 32 will do fine too, mean while I keep going with 8 to 10.

 

[Xenon]

Narrow waists and fiddleback are beautiful, elegant and refined in all shoes as can be seen in all the photos here.

I actually had rearely seen so many awesome shoes before SF

 

[amplifiedheat]

Originally Posted by southbound35

Not to sound like the guy who is worried about which watch is manliest, but I think there is a line in mens dress shoes where they go from being masculine to "too pretty". I think the very narrow waist crosses that line.

This is generally the problem for me. Just as waist suppression in jackets is more about good shape and line than mere wasp-waistedness, waisted-ness of shoes should be about elegance over mere narrowness. After all, small, delicate feet are generally valued in women more so than men: