Men's Style- Boring?

[76classic]

I'm thinking about a topic for my blog and I want to ask: is men's style boring? I flip through mainstream men's fashion and it is very effeminate. Is this an incorrect perception? Is it because women like looking at men like their BFF and not a man? Do women find windsors, balmorals, glen plaids, etc too complicated and would just readily accept men who dress in terms they understand? I would like some opinions, please weigh in. Forgive me if this has been discussed before.

 

[celery]

It's kind of hard to tell if contemporary menswear is effeminate in general, or that the presentation is effeminate.

I mean, look at the ads, you don't get to see very masculine models. They look like 90lb 16 year olds most of the time. They make everything look kinda girly.

This isn't in all the ads, but it's enough to create this image of effeminate menswear.

As far as boring goes, meh, that goes both ways. Trad can be pretty damn boring imo.

 

[Nico Samuel Pleninsek]

Originally Posted by 76classic

I'm thinking about a topic for my blog and I want to ask: is men's style boring? I flip through mainstream men's fashion and it is very effeminate. Is this an incorrect perception? Is it because women like looking at men like their BFF and not a man? Do women find windsors, balmorals, glen plaids, etc too complicated and would just readily accept men who dress in terms they understand? I would like some opinions, please weigh in. Forgive me if this has been discussed before.


I find much of men's so-called trad. and historical pieces fascinating, especially the latter.

I find the term effeminate rather offensive; for, I don't understand why a man shouldn't look good in clothes. Clothing really doesn't have a gender, items constantly change gender norms. High heels were once the aristocratic norm in Europe, women were once barred from wearing pants, tights and ruffles were once the norm for men etc.

So I'm trying to get to the fact who cares if the times are changing, I think it is high time. Esp. today, when one gets called effimate for wearing a suit with waist suppresion. Hell I get scoffed at in my town for wearing: Chelsea boots, pea coats, and cardigans; many see these as effeminate! Actually I would say mainstream men's wear has gotten less of the socalled effeminate in the past century or so. I was looking through an old family album a while ago and the men looked just as taken care of as the women, wore suits with much waist suppresion, etc.

I also don't understand what looks have with how manly a man is. What is a real man in our age anyhow? One who is lazy, doesn't care about anything, and has a fetish for guns? I just don't understand why a man can't be as beatiful as a woman and still be a man in action. They say the more beautiful a bird is, the more testosterone runs through his system, perhaps the same holds true for humans.

 

[76classic]

I don't mean effeminate in terms of someone taking care of themselves. I mean in terms of the only people who seem to know something about style are homosexual. If you are not homosexual, then automatically you are metrosexual. It's all about labels. Why can't you just be a man who knows how to dress. Effeminate? This is what I mean:

 

[Nico Samuel Pleninsek]

Originally Posted by 76classic

I don't mean effeminate in terms of someone taking care of themselves. I mean in terms of the only people who seem to know something about style are homosexual. If you are not homosexual, then automatically you are metrosexual. It's all about labels. Why can't you just be a man who knows how to dress. Effeminate? This is what I mean:

Okay I understand you now. Yes I hate the labels!

 

[babygreenspots]

Originally Posted by 76classic

I don't mean effeminate in terms of someone taking care of themselves. I mean in terms of the only people who seem to know something about style are homosexual. If you are not homosexual, then automatically you are metrosexual. It's all about labels. Why can't you just be a man who knows how to dress. Effeminate? This is what I mean:


I think this is rather old hat. Nobody has seriously said "metrosexual" for at least a year and a half. As far stylish men seeming homosexual - the subject is so tired.

 

[76classic]

I understand it is an old subject, I'm just wondering the "Why" and wanted to hear people's opinions. If you know a thread that discusses this in depth, then post it.

 

[jasonmarshalljazz]

I think that the femininity to which you are referring is a direct result of the of the reality that most of the "men" involved in men's fashion aren't actually motivated by the primal conquest of the opposite sex. it is my opinion that timeless men's fashion was originally developed by heterosexual men in an effort to assert class and breeding but also to attract the opposite (fairer) sex.

 

[Brian278]

What exactly are you referring to when you say "mainstream" men's fashion? I think there are plenty of ads in Esquire, Men's Health, and the more crude but well-selling Maxim, FHM, etc. that potray a very masculine ideal in ads for a clothing label. But if you're reading Men's Vogue or Details, yeah, you're going to get something a bit more androgynous. They're catering to their audience, who isn't as afraid of being called gay and likely is attracted to a more metropolitan, refined aesthetic.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by 76classic

I'm thinking about a topic for my blog and I want to ask: is men's style boring? I flip through mainstream men's fashion and it is very effeminate. Is this an incorrect perception? Is it because women like looking at men like their BFF and not a man? Do women find windsors, balmorals, glen plaids, etc too complicated and would just readily accept men who dress in terms they understand? I would like some opinions, please weigh in. Forgive me if this has been discussed before.

I've hesitated in posting to this thread, because there are a range of intersecting issues which you have raised, some of which I feel are tied-up in (and no offense intended here) your very personal perceptions of masculinity/femininity...

First off, I think the current use of young, slim male models in the advertising campaigns of major fashion houses is a trend, and nothing more. These things come and go; a few years ago, designers preferred using more muscular models in their runway and print campaigns, and now there seems to be a trend towards using slimmer models. This is likely to reverse itself at some undetermined point in the future... There are also some designers/fashion houses like Prada or Raf Simons who tend to prefer a leaner, slimmer silhouette, and make clothes for people with that kind of build.

The example you chose to illustrate your point from women's Vogue is also a rather extreme characterization. There are many things that we could say about that cover photograph, but I'm not sure you can make the leap from the cover of a women's magazine to the conclusion that current men's fashion is "effeminate." It's really a large stretch, taken from a non-representative (i.e., it's from a women's magazine, not a men's magazine) with a sample size of one. To really prove your point, you would have to go through every single print ad or photo shoot in a large number of men's magazines and rate them according to your criteria of masculinity/femininity. You would also likely need to have several other individuals going through exactly the same magazines and photos, doing the same exercise, to correct for personal biases, perceptional biases, etc. Essentially, what I'm saying is you need to have some kind of more objective statistical approach, rather than just making an off the cuff statement which I find highly suspect...

As others have noted, ads in many fashion magazines run the gamut of "masculinity" and "femininity," and are going to be geared to their target audience. A more blokey magazine like FHM or Maxxim is more likely have hyper-masculine portrayals of men's looks, while Details or Men's Vogue less so.

I also find it difficult making the jump from magazines, print and runway ads to understanding women's psychology. What we are getting from the magazines and ads are the editors' perceptions of what is a saleable product to their target audience, not "what women think." If you want to know what women think, then you'd have to conduct polls or interviews. Making inferences from men's and women's magazines is just... tenuous, suspect, or sometimes just plain wrong.

 

[76classic]

Thanks for the responses. Don't get me wrong, I read Esquire, GQ, Menshealth, etc....I'm not saying that there aren't any masculine ads, just few in my opinion. I see plenty of ads that feature shirtless men in men's magazines. I guess that just doesn't appeal to me. I read through Styleforum and I guess just not enough of truly stylish men are heard, IMHO. I would love a Styleforum television show. And truthfully of all the magazines on the market, only Menswear and Esquire's Big Black Book really offer what I'm looking for. I can do without the D&G laden ads.

 

[sanrensho]

So should the real title of this post be "Men's Style - Effeminate?"

 

[76classic]

That does seem like where it is going huh. I find men's style actually to be quite lively, I guess some just don't share my enthusiasm. At least in my immediate peer group, some men are either sloppy or feminine. The well dressed is few and far in between. Take into consideration I don't reside in stylish cities like LA or New York, so for some it may be different.

 

[sanrensho]

Originally Posted by 76classic

That does seem like where it is going huh. I find men's style actually to be quite lively, I guess some just don't share my enthusiasm. At least in my immediate peer group, some men are either sloppy or feminine. The well dressed is few and far in between. Take into consideration I don't reside in stylish cities like LA or New York, so for some it may be different.
I think anything done well - even if it is boring - is quite amazing if one takes the time to understand and appreciate what is going on. As for LA, I'm from there, and aside for one or two small neighborhoods it's far from stylish. So no worries, you're not missing anything.

 

[life_interrupts]

Thinking about this topic, there are a few things that strike me:

1.) Fashion and style are being conflated to mean the same thing. I think NYC is a fashionable town, but not always stylish. Now, coming from DC where many think khakis and a blue blazer mean you're dressed for success, that may be cause a guffaw. However, with all the men's shops available in NYC, Banana Republic, JCrew and the like dominate men's fashion sense, from what I see when I visit. Unless I'm in the Village with musician friends, then anything goes.

But style doesn't cater to the whims of fashion, which I think lead guys down many a waxed chest and $500 jeans path. However, being a dandy or fop or any other term for it will lead Joe Six-pack to ask questions.

2.) There's an underestimation of the use of homoerotic imagery at the fashionplate level of engagement. All the upper end designers have a fair amount of it (Tom Ford, D&G, moving down, even Abecrombie). Even those on the other end of the spectrum, like 2xst, cater to that depiction of masculinity. Does that speak to Joe Turnpike? That doesn't even speak to Conne.

3.) This is an interesting conversation for a bunch of men who post on a style board to other guys they never met.

That being said, I agree with 76 Classic and Academe that men's style is a bit more effeminate of late and that it's the fashion swing of the pendulum in opposition to Tyson Beckford and Marcus S.