Medaille d'Or (and other Saphir products)....

[Michael69]

I know this has been asked before, and I have spent quite a lot of time searching, but I'd like to get hold of this in the UK.

I've found the french site, and Franco's, but I still have a couple of questions...

First, I'm a bit unsure about the cleaner/conditioner - which is the one for calf dress shoes (ones a bit waxy?).

Secondly, I haven't found any stockists in the UK - is this right? Franco's doesn't appear to stock the conditioners only the cream and wax....

sorry to have to ask, but I'd really like to buy a stock of this stuff!

 

[Roger]

Here's my reply to this question on Ask Andy:

I don't know whether this product--Crema Alpina--is produced by Saphir or an affiliate, but it's the leather conditioner I have purchased (on Ron Rider's advice, so there's no better endorsement) from Franco's when purchasing Saphir creams and polishes:

http://www.francos.com/items/item.asp?sku5=97932

 

[philosophe]

Crema Alpina is phenomenal stuff. With that and Saphir, my shoes haven't looked so good in years.

 

[stickonatree]

i've heard on this forum before that different shoe creams/polishes have minimal differences, and that it's 80% in the technique of how you go about creaming/polishing your shoes. haven't heard much since then, but i've always wondered if that were true.

 

[lasbar]

Differences in the composition are important..Cheap products tend to have silicone in it because of the shiny effect given on the leather...

Silicone is not recommended on leather because it doesn't let the leather breathes by creating a film on top of it...
You do have to avoid cheap products...

 

[RIDER]

Originally Posted by Michael69

I know this has been asked before, and I have spent quite a lot of time searching, but I'd like to get hold of this in the UK.

I've found the french site, and Franco's, but I still have a couple of questions...

First, I'm a bit unsure about the cleaner/conditioner - which is the one for calf dress shoes (ones a bit waxy?).

Secondly, I haven't found any stockists in the UK - is this right? Franco's doesn't appear to stock the conditioners only the cream and wax....

sorry to have to ask, but I'd really like to buy a stock of this stuff!


The cleaner/conditioner is 'Renoveteur', and Franco's does stock it. However, if you purchase the Edward Green or Lobb care products, they are re-branded Medaille D'Or/Saphir.

The 'Crema Alpina' is a different company, and we set up a distribution agreement with them, as well. I made a huge mistake in calculating the weight/volume for shipping and the freight bill was, like, unbelievable.....we were not able to sell this wholesale, so the entire supply has been in Franco's retail stores. At last check they had about a dozen jars left, and it is very good stuff.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by RIDER

The cleaner/conditioner is 'Renoveteur', and Franco's does stock it.
I just noticed that for the first time, Ron, and haven't used it. One of the ingredients is mink oil, and I was under the impression that this darkened leather. Do you know whether anyone has reported darkening of the leather from the Renovateur conditioner?

 

[Michael69]

Originally Posted by RIDER

if you purchase the Edward Green or Lobb care products, they are re-branded Medaille D'Or/Saphir.

I was aware of this, but I don't think they stock the (re-badged) cleaner/renovator?

 

[the.chikor]

Originally Posted by Michael69

First, I'm a bit unsure about the cleaner/conditioner - which is the one for calf dress shoes (ones a bit waxy?).

Franco's has a great thread on how to properly care for your shoes-basically, the cleaner/conditioner is a must for leather nourishment. And of course, natural based wax shoe polishes are better than the Naptha based polishes, e.g., Kiwi.

I have used Cole Haan leather conditioner, Bick, Fiebings, and Saphir Renovateur (at the suggestion of Dimitri Gomez.) Personally, Cole Haan, Bick, Fiebings all seem to be similar in physical properties and in nourishing the leather.

Saphir Renovateur is slightly different in consistency-a little bit more viscous, but performs equally as far as I can tell-but, the Renovateur seems to leave a film on the leather, which impedes my shining of the shoe. Although I love their shoe polish, I stopped using the Renovateur for this reason.

I use the conditioner, let it dry or absorb, then apply creme polish, let it dry and then shine the shoe-giving a little bit of color back to the leather, and then, finally, I use good old wax polish to shine the shoe. In my opinion, Saphir, Alden, Ed Green work very well. I have found that certain shoes will polish better with different polishes-so, you might have to experiment a little to find out which one you prefer for each of your different shoes. I hope it helps. Keep in mind that everyone has different experiences-some people may disagree with what I have written. So, just take what I say with a grain of salt, so to speak and try suggestions on this site, and see what works for you.

I attached a picture of a pair of newly acquired monks from Maftei in Vienna-I used Saphir, Ed Green, J&M and Collonil to shine the shoes. All polishes did ok, but would not give me the finish that I wanted. Ultimately, Alden performed the way I wanted on these pair of shoes.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by the.chikor

Franco's has a great thread on how to properly care for your shoes-basically, the cleaner/conditioner is a must for leather nourishment. And of course, natural based wax shoe polishes are better than the Naptha based polishes, e.g., Kiwi.
Interesting post, the.chikor. First, by natural-based wax polishes, what base or bases are you referring to? Saphir (and, therefore, Edward Green, Weston, and JLobb) has a turpentine base. Kiwi has a Stoddard's Solvent base. Perhaps we should consider turpentine a natural base because it comes from distilled pine-tree resin. Similarly, is Stoddard's Solvent not a natural base because it is a petroleum by-product? I'm not a chemist and would really appreciate some clarifications on this as I've often wondered about the relative merits of the different bases used in polishes. Also, why do you say that "...of course, natural based wax shoe polishes are better than the Naptha based polishes"? Better in the sense of being a little less toxic to the user? Or to the environment? Or better in the sense of producing a superior result?

Edit: Oh, one last question: Is that Alden polish in the jar their shell cordovan wax (or at least what they recommend for their shell cordovan shoes)?

 

[the.chikor]

Originally Posted by Roger

First, by natural-based wax polishes, what base or bases are you referring to? Saphir (and, therefore, Edward Green, Weston, and JLobb) has a turpentine base. Kiwi has a Stoddard's Solvent base. Perhaps we should consider turpentine a natural base because it comes from distilled pine-tree resin.

Roger, Thank you for your response. You are right, this is what I was refering to.

Similarly, is Stoddard's Solvent not a natural base because it is a petroleum by-product?

Also correct.

I'm not a chemist and would really appreciate some clarifications on this as I've often wondered about the relative merits of the different bases used in polishes.

I can inquire with a friend, who is a biochemist, but his undergrad was in Physical chemistry, if you really want the chemistry pedantry. Keep in mind, if you really want chemical merits, and not user merits, specify if you want O Chem versus P Chem merits or B Chem merits, because they will be different. Also specify exactly what merits you are referring to please and I shall inquire. More likely than not, they will not help you with what you are trying to achieve. Most chemists are not interested in what polish is shines your shoes the best or is best for the leather, unless this is what they are paid to research.

But, what I was referring to, and what I think is more relevant to our use of polishes, as users, is that the Naptha base seems to protect the leather from water and the elements, but does not nourish the leather or absorb into the leather as a natural base seems to. Thus, the argument is that such a polish will allow the leather to dry out and possibly break down over time.

I do not at all refer to toxicity to the user or the environment. Here is a link that may explain in further detail that to which I was referring to:

http://www.francos.com/info/everywear.asp#shoe[/color]


Edit: Oh, one last question: Is that Alden polish in the jar their shell cordovan wax (or at least what they recommend for their shell cordovan shoes)?
I dont know. It only says Alden fine paste wax, Black, on the jar. Thank you. I hope I answered your questions.

 

[sigma6]

hej. as far as i know they are able to ship to uk: http://www.schuhmacherei-sassen.com/...te:::9_30.html

paypal accepted.

salut

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by the.chikor

I dont know. It only says Alden fine paste wax, Black, on the jar. Thank you. I hope I answered your questions.

Thoughtful answers, the.chikor; thank you. I don't really need the detailed chemical analysis as you surmised. I was hoping that there might be some simple physical/chemical differences that would account for a natural-base polish being more effective than a Naphtha-based one, but perhaps, at the end of the day, experience provides better evidence. You may well be right that the natural solvent-based products penetrate the leather more effectively. However, given the use--prior to the application of the polish--of first, a leather conditioner and, after that, a cream, I wouldn't be too concerned about a wax's ability to nourish and moisturize. The conditioner and cream will do that, with the wax serving to (a) bring the finish to a higher shine and, more importantly, (b) provide an effective shield against the elements. My own shoe-polishing regimen, by the way, is just about identical to yours.

 

[Dmax]

I have used Saphir Renovateur, Colonil conditioner and Lexol conditioner and prefer Lexol.

For waxes and polishes I prefer Saphir to petroleum based products like Kiwi or Meltonian. Compared to petroleum based products, Saphir has pleasant enough smell that I can use it indoors and it does not stain my fingers.

 

[Poshak Man]

Does not seem like Crema Alpina is available on Francos web site. Are there any other online sellers of this product?