MC General Chat

[John Doe]

 

[Journeyman]

I know this is going to make me sound like a grump, but so many of the shoe threads on here feel so much less classic these days. Two-tone shoes, crazy colors, nutty lasts. All the EG guys talk about is two-toned zug Galways with dandy combos. The Vass thread doesn't even feel like it's about an Austro Hungarian company anymore (some of those makes look more Italian than Italian shoes). And everything is just buy buy buy, kop kop kop. It's like the Alden thread, but with fewer mentions of "uncle" and "nephew."

The only threads that still vaguely feel like they're about classic style are the bespoke tailoring threads.

Anyway, I know this is old, treaded ground.

I gave up on the EG thread 8722 posts ago and haven't looked at it since, as I don't want a pair of Galways and got rather tired of the folks who posted pics of their five different pairs of Galways in different combinations!

I strongly agree about the "buy, buy, buy, kop, kop, kop" atmosphere in quite a few threads.

I know that this is SF and I know that we live in a consumer society, but it freaks me out when I see people buying 30 pairs of high-end shoes in a year, plus suits, plus a couple of high-end watches. Of course, I'm sure that there are some very wealthy people on SF, but when I see things like that, I can't help but think, "That guy spent $50 000 or more in one year on clothing and watches. That's just incredible. That's a decent house deposit or a year's sabbatical from work."

I actually thought it has been getting a little better. Sometimes there are discussions -- whole threads, even -- about topics other than how great an affiliate's merch is. For a while, it just seemed like endless sponsored/appreciation threads.

That said, I don't visit much anymore, so I may not be that well-informed.

Good to see you dropping in, @DocHolliday !

 

[dieworkwear]



I know that this is SF and I know that we live in a consumer society, but it freaks me out when I see people buying 30 pairs of high-end shoes in a year, plus suits, plus a couple of high-end watches. Of course, I'm sure that there are some very wealthy people on SF, but when I see things like that, I can't help but think, "That guy spent $50 000 or more in one year on clothing and watches. That's just incredible. That's a decent house deposit or a year's sabbatical from work." 

I don't think you can even get a shack in the worst parts of the Bay Area with a $50k deposit.

I don't have a problem with people spending a lot on clothes. I spend a lot on clothes. So long as people can afford it, I don't see what's the problem.

The threads are just boring cause the discussions have turned into the Alden thread.

"Check out my new shoes."
"Very nice, nephew."
"Should I get these purple walrus skin boots?"
"Definitely, uncle."

To be fair, most of the shoe threads were always like that. But people used to be more discerning, and styles used to be more classic, which IMO made them more interesting to read.

 

[CBrown85]



I don't think you can even get a shack in the worst parts of the Bay Area with a $50k deposit.

I don't have a problem with people spending a lot on clothes. I spend a lot on clothes. So long as people can afford it, I don't see what's the problem.

The threads are just boring cause the discussions have turned into the Alden thread.

"Check out my new shoes."
"Very nice, nephew."
"Should I get these purple walrus skin boots?"
"Definitely, uncle."

To be fair, most of the shoe threads were always like that. But people used to be more discerning, and styles used to be more classic, which IMO made them more interesting to read.

There's spending a lot on clothes, and then there's spending a lot on clothes. SF, and to a larger extent the menswear internet hobby (instagram being the latest and greatest) as a whole, fetishise a lifestyle that the majority following it cannot afford. It's interesting because I come here and follow many to learn about classic menswear but end up inundated with the conspicuous consumption that I was trying to avoid.

I suppose it's all perspective.

 

[Journeyman]

I don't think you can even get a shack in the worst parts of the Bay Area with a $50k deposit.

I don't have a problem with people spending a lot on clothes. I spend a lot on clothes. So long as people can afford it, I don't see what's the problem.

The threads are just boring cause the discussions have turned into the Alden thread.

"Check out my new shoes."
"Very nice, nephew."
"Should I get these purple walrus skin boots?"
"Definitely, uncle."

To be fair, most of the shoe threads were always like that. But people used to be more discerning, and styles used to be more classic, which IMO made them more interesting to read.

Naturally, if all of the people spending $50k a year on clothes, shoes and watches are wealthy, then that's fine.

I could probably have phrased things better because something that irks me about SF, as you pointed out, is the "kopping".

It's natural for people to want to be part of a group and, of course, SF is a group and there are sub-groups within the larger group of SF. Various sub-groups on SF prize various things - watches, shoes, ties, particular suits and so on.

I can't help but think that a lot of the kopping that goes on around here is due to members wanting to be part of particular groups, wanting to keep up with the latest popular styles, wanting to have product X if these other guys who are posting pics also have product X.

I feel certain - although this is just a hunch, rather than actual knowledge - that there are quite a few people on SF who have considerably over-extended themselves due to the self-imposed pressure to "kop" and to show off their new purchases in the WAYWRN thread or the watch appreciation thread or so on.

The constant purchasing also appears to be really wasteful. It's not unusual to see threads in the B&S forum about people "thinning their wardrobe" and they're selling shoes that are totally unworn, that they were showing off in the Carmina or EG thread a few months prior. That's great for those who want a 50% discount on brand-new-in-box shoes, but clearly not good for the seller.

Everyone's free to spend their money on whatever they like, but I personally think that it would be great if there was a bit more restraint and a bit less kopping at times, and I'm sure that SF "enables" and aggravates that over-consumption and unnecessary consumption.

 

[ThinkDerm]



I don't think you can even get a shack in the worst parts of the Bay Area with a $50k deposit.

I don't have a problem with people spending a lot on clothes. I spend a lot on clothes. So long as people can afford it, I don't see what's the problem.

The threads are just boring cause the discussions have turned into the Alden thread.

"Check out my new shoes."
"Very nice, nephew."
"Should I get these purple walrus skin boots?"
"Definitely, uncle."

To be fair, most of the shoe threads were always like that. But people used to be more discerning, and styles used to be more classic, which IMO made them more interesting to read.

after you've purchased all the "classic" shoes, then what?

all the "new" styles are mostly "out there"

 

[ThinkDerm]



Naturally, if all of the people spending $50k a year on clothes, shoes and watches are wealthy, then that's fine. 

I could probably have phrased things better because something that irks me about SF, as you pointed out, is the "kopping". 

It's natural for people to want to be part of a group and, of course, SF is a group and there are sub-groups within the larger group of SF. Various sub-groups on SF prize various things - watches, shoes, ties, particular suits and so on. 

I can't help but think that a lot of the kopping that goes on around here is due to members wanting to be part of particular groups, wanting to keep up with the latest popular styles, wanting to have product X if these other guys who are posting pics also have product X. 

I feel certain - although this is just a hunch, rather than actual knowledge - that there are quite a few people on SF who have considerably over-extended themselves due to the self-imposed pressure to "kop" and to show off their new purchases in the WAYWRN thread or the watch appreciation thread or so on. 

The constant purchasing also appears to be really wasteful. It's not unusual to see threads in the B&S forum about people "thinning their wardrobe" and they're selling shoes that are totally unworn, that they were showing off in the Carmina or EG thread a few months prior. That's great for those who want a 50% discount on brand-new-in-box shoes, but clearly not good for the seller. 

Everyone's free to spend their money on whatever they like, but I personally think that it would be great if there was a bit more restraint and a bit less kopping at times, and I'm sure that SF "enables" and aggravates that over-consumption and unnecessary consumption. 

at most we need 5 to 10 pairs of shoes - and we'd be able to keep this rotation steady and cover all bases with these pairs for several years. however, most of us live in excess. that's what keeps the economy zipping along. imagine if everyone - if on SF or not - stopped kopping because they didn't need anything else. the world economy would collapse.

 

[dieworkwear]

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[dieworkwear]

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[ThinkDerm]



I'm not talking about stuff being "out there." I'm saying this side of the forum doesn't feel as rooted in classic style as it used to be. And that seems unfortunate.

As for what to buy after you've purchased "all the classics," I don't know what that means. Will and Vox have pretty big wardrobes, and seem to continue to buy new things. Some of those things are a bit "out there," but they're all still tasteful and classic.

I don't know what classic shoes Vox and Will are buying with regularity anymore. I don't know either personally, yet it seems that they have all that they really "need." Their bases were covered years ago likely.

I remember when Vox used to post his monthly "kops" of like 10 to 20 pairs of shoes; along with Aportnoy...

I agree. There is a lack of emphasis on "classic" clothing. There's a ton of "streetwear for MC / CM" on this side of the forum; much less suiting, etc. Maybe this reflects how everyone/society is moving towards more "casual" clothing as stated here and on ASW by Will himself. Nearly half of the fits I see Vox post are casual clothing.

A lot of "menswear" nowadays are affected - there is a real lack of "classic" menswear on here (SF) and on the internet. Much more "peacocking" - which is fine, if that's what makes everyone happy.

 

[dieworkwear]

nm

 

[bertie]

I have learned a lot from this forum over the past 5 years and have largely transformed my wardrobe as a result and am very grateful for the information provided by a wide range of members. I consider myself a CM nerd (and proud of it) and this forum has provided a way of expressing my nerdness. While not anywhere near the good taste of many members here I have developed a "classic" wardrobe that would not look out of place in any conservative business environment. I sincerely enjoyed the experience and the process (except for at least one insufferable ego who thankfully has moved on).

I have spent less time on the forum as more threads have focused on affiliates and other specific brands with increasingly specific variations on classic themes (as noted by others above). I largely chalk this up to the typical ebb and flow of these forums. Back in the mid-2000s even many famous posters were focusing on specific brands and only developed an interest in bespoke later. I suspect that at least some of the posters actively posting in the affiliate threads will develop a deeper interest in bespoke tailoring and more classic styles at some point and the forum will drift back to more bespoke coverage as a result.

One lingering personal effect of early exposure to SF is that I became less interested in brands and more interested in classic tailoring. I have no issue with the affiliates as such and many offer products that were not readily available in North America previously or at all. However, I do admit I spend less time here except for those threads that focus on tailoring. I also admit that I spend more time on S&D as many of those threads are more humorous (even if unintentional) and I am expanding my casual wardrobe. Also I have not found any real alternative source for CM information.

 

[ThinkDerm]



FYI, that Instagram Voxsartoria guy last year wasn't really Vox.

i was referring to his tumblr. never knew of a "vox" IG account.

I have learned a lot from this forum over the past 5 years and have largely transformed my wardrobe as a result and am very grateful for the information provided by a wide range of members. I consider myself a CM nerd (and proud of it) and this forum has provided a way of expressing my nerdness. While not anywhere near the good taste of many members here I have developed a "classic" wardrobe that would not look out of place in any conservative business environment. I sincerely enjoyed the experience and the process (except for at least one insufferable ego who thankfully has moved on).

I have spent less time on the forum as more threads have focused on affiliates and other specific brands with increasingly specific variations on classic themes (as noted by others above). I largely chalk this up to the typical ebb and flow of these forums. Back in the mid-2000s even many famous posters were focusing on specific brands and only developed an interest in bespoke later. I suspect that at least some of the posters actively posting in the affiliate threads will develop a deeper interest in bespoke tailoring and more classic styles at some point and the forum will drift back to more bespoke coverage as a result.

One lingering personal effect of early exposure to SF is that I became less interested in brands and more interested in classic tailoring. I have no issue with the affiliates as such and many offer products that were not readily available in North America previously or at all. However, I do admit I spend less time here except for those threads that focus on tailoring. I also admit that I spend more time on S&D as many of those threads are more humorous (even if unintentional) and I am expanding my casual wardrobe. Also I have not found any real alternative source for CM information.

Bertie - you bring up a couple of great points - after 5 years (or more) most of us have the CM thing down pat. not as much to talk about. Very cool that a solid number of "early" posters have turned this into a business and brought a lot of the brands to the USA. I remember back in the day, a lot of people loved incotex and borrelli - now no one mentions these brands anymore really on here. santoni was quite popular. not so much anymore... these things cycle. I think it is awesome that formosa bespoke is available through NMWA. That is huge.

The fact that people don't have to go to Naples anymore to get the goods is also pretty cool.

Ambrosi coming to Armoury and being reliable takes a lot of the romance out of "where are my pents" - less threads.

There is also less to "discover" nowadays - everything is so accessible. There are few "menswear" stories and "secret" tailors left.

Most of the action is in the affiliate threads nowadays. A lot of that is about "koppin'"

You are right bertie - there are very few places on the internet to read about "classic" menswear nowadays. Would love for more sites / content. The return of RJ could help...

 

[ThinkDerm]

PS - I love the Japanese Shoe Thread - because there is a story there, and there is a lot about artisans

 

[dieworkwear]

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