Kuppenheimer Winter Topcoat

[Lafont]

Actually, the Wikipedia article was one of the first web references to Kuppenheimer I came across; naturally, it lead to many others. Yes, I had seen some of these Fedora Lounge posts (not the Fashion Park references, though; nice to see as I'm originally from Rochester). As my coat looks EXACTLY in styling like the 1923 ad, considering very minor "artistic license," so far I have no reason to believe my coat need be any later than the 1920s. So never mind the '40s-50s styling; the coat is fairly classic.
Any comments on the texture of the fabric (what little you can see in the photos, anyway)?

The Kuppenheimer label appears to be older than any of the ones I've seen.
As Higbee's department store moved to a spanking new building in downtown Cleveland in 1931, it would make perfect sense for the company to change its logo at that time and completely scrap the old one again (though I could keep looking). Glad to know Rod Serling wore Kuppenheimer. I have a few special connections with the guy, as I've seen his house in Ithaca, NY and knew a few of his cousins.

 

[mack11211]

One other note to help date the coat is the union label you will find tucked into a pocket, usually on the right, inside. The labels changed every few years (but not every year) and some had copyright dates on them, which would indicate the coat was made that year or a soon after. Since the union label is much more widely used than the label of brand or store, this could be more easily trackable. There are guides on ebay here and here to help you date the union label. Someone else could better date the fashionability of various fonts used in the labelling...the Kuppenheimer label fonts suggest the 40s to me.

 

[Lafont]

BTW, someone in Fedora Lounge wrote Kuppenheimer didn't make suits until the 1930s but that's obviously wrong, as one can see many ads for their suits from earlier decades. I don't know that they made anything besides suits or sportscoats and overcoats, though that would seem unlikely.

 

[mack11211]

Originally Posted by Lafont

BTW, someone in Fedora Lounge wrote Kuppenheimer didn't make suits until the 1930s but that's obviously wrong, as one can see many ads for their suits from earlier decades. I don't know that they made anything besides suits or sportscoats and overcoats, though that would seem unlikely.

Every forum has its share of misinformation.

Re: the date of the coat: This far back and in a less-popular category of clothing (topcoats), styling details that date a coat are less familiar...plus these coats were made to last. You wouldn't get a new topcoat every year.

The reason I date it later is that clothing wears out, and is less likely to survive through periods of privation or scarcity like the Depression and WWII. It's not impossible; it just changes the odds.

 

[Mark Seitelman]

Lydendecker did Kuppenheimer ads in the 1920's and perhaps into the 1930's.

He created the famous Arrow Collar Man advertising. He was a leading illustrator and did many magazine covers in the era when illustrators did covers.

There was an excellent Lyendecker book published about 2 years ago, and you will find many examples of his Kuppenheimer and Arrow work.

Good luck.

 

[Lafont]

Yes, thanks, but I already borrowed it from the public library and returned it. Didn't show revealing logos or labels. Beautiful book, though. I also saw another book on him - an older folio - but it didn't address in my search.

I suppose someone in Fedora Lounge might know something but I can't post there. They told me I wasn't signed up with a type of Internet access they'd accept - those snobs!

My Kuppenheimer label looks older to me - e.g. '20s. In any case, the Higbee's label appears to be no later than ca. 1931, and the Kuppenheimer labels I've seen from later (e.g. '40s or '50s, I guess) are different. In the same spirit but significantly different in details.

 

[mack11211]

Originally Posted by Lafont

Yes, thanks, but I already borrowed it from the public library and returned it. Didn't show revealing logos or labels. Beautiful book, though. I also saw another book on him - an older folio - but it didn't address in my search.

I suppose someone in Fedora Lounge might know something but I can't post there. They told me I wasn't signed up with a type of Internet access they'd accept - those snobs!

My Kuppenheimer lable looks older to me - e.g. '20s. In any case, the Higbee's label appears to be no later than ca. 1931, and the Kuppenheimer labels I've seen from later (e.g. '40s or '50s, I guess) are different. In the same spirit but significantly different in details.

Check the union label, then photo and post it.

That should be the best guide.

 

[Lafont]

I've looked in the pockets but since you mention that I'll look with that in mind. Were these sewed in or detached. Approx. when might these union labels first be used?

 

[mack11211]

Originally Posted by Lafont

I've looked in the pockets but since you mention that I'll look with that in mind. Were these sewed in or detached. Approx. when might these union labels first be used?
They have been used throughout the last century in different forms, so they should cover any conceivable make date. The label is small and sewn in. It may be frayed but is unlikely to have been detached. Check the ebay guides I linked to above, so you'll know what to look for.

 

[Lafont]

Well, turns out the sportscoat I'm wearing today has a union label sewed in a breast pocket. Says the "ACTWU" with sort of a tiny xmas-ornament shaped detail. According to your article it looks like 1976 on, though I don't see anything about this extra little detail.

 

[jchosko]

How did you arrive at the no later than 1931 date for the Higbee's label? To my eye, the "DeePelt" lettering, with the block lettering and offset 3-D effect shading, looks decidedly post-art deco, which would put it into at least the 40s...But, I speak as no expert on either Kuppenheimer or Higbee's, just someone who has an interest in art deco design. From the suggestions posted above, it does seem like the best route is to try to find a union label in side the coat.

Either way, if you are unable to get a historically accurate date of manufacture for the coat, the fact remains that it is a beautiful piece!

Best of luck!

 

[Lafont]

jchosko: Thanks. I think it looks great, too. I wonder if I'll get a lot of comments like I did with my black leather duster last year (which I ruturned to Wilson's for full credit when the dye kept coming off). Thinking this Kuppenheimer is a bit more subtle - likely nobody will notice it much. Can't wait to see. Yet I never see recent coats that much like this - perhaps in Europe (e.g. London?).
As for the "1931," I wrote a few posts back - our old Polk Cleveland City Directories had Higbee's ads in the '20s up to 1931 (when the store moved into its final flagship bldg.) with the same logo as the coat but the 1932 Directory has a different logo.

 

[Lafont]

The suggestion to seek a union lable was excellent - thanks, guys. As you can see, my label, which was sewed into the inner, right-hand pocket, looks virtually like the first ("1936-1939") union label shown in the Fedora Lounge/eBay post. I can't read the exact year under the "WORKERS" but the "193?" is clear. Can anyone offer a reference whereby the "829876" can lead right to a year? Any info on the "series GC?" After the union bug is what looks like "501" I think. Does that mean anything to anybody?

As you can also see, the Higbee's label actually says "194_" for the year. So the coat was made to sell in the 1940s, unless someone in, say, 1939, jumped the gun in using this label. As the article states sometimes label use overlapped - i.e. someone sewed in an outdated label - I'm basically assuming this label was indeed used after 1939 and the coat is from the early 1940s - from 1940 on. Yes, the coat has virtually the identical style to the one in the 1923 Kupperheimer ad I posted a few times, so obviously the company repeated this style for many years. It also happens my father is wearing a coat in some 1943 photos which looks just the same and even appears to have the same kind of rougher wool texture. And apparently Higbee's did use this loto lettering many years after 1931.

This started me up in looking for union labels in other clothing I possess.... Could not find any hint of one in my classic, black leather Cooper bomber - made in the U.S. Wonder if some of these companies were simply not unionized.

Any comments on any of this?

 

[Lafont]

I know - photos too small (and I can't figure out any way to delete them....). Please see next post:

 

[Lafont]

These should work!