ISAIA MTM cvs Harry Rosen Bespoke (at Bloor St)

[theoriginaljath]

Hey guys,

Wondering if anyone has an opinion between the following: Harry Rosen bespoke suit vs ISAIA MTM. They’re both around the same price point.
The Harry Rosen bespoke obviously gives the bespoke experience, it would be my first one and I would also be able to learn about what to expect and understand the process. You’d be able to customize virtually anything you want on the suit as well.

On the other hand, I’ve always wanted an ISAIA suit. But it’s only made to measure. I’m big on brands, and typically don’t go for the typical department store brands (Harry Rosen or Holt Renfrew shirts/shoes etc).

I feel that bespoke could possibly be a good enough reason to go with the department store tailors as they would know what they’re doing, but there’s a reason why ISAIA has built their reputation on being some of the nicer suits out there.

So in short, looking for opinions on if you had to make a choice, what would you choose? This is gonna be my first “upper tier” suit so not sure which to go for.

 

[classicalthunde]

FWIW - go with the one you really want...if you don't know assign each to heads or tails and flip a coin, the one you hope it lands on as its in the middle of the air is probably the one you want more.

Also, I would only do ISAIA MTM if the suits generally already kind of work on you but you'd just like to make a tweak here or there, if it totally doesn't work for your body type its likely that MTM wont be able to close all those gaps at once

Focus on construction, aesthetics, and materials - are they both hand made and full canvased? do you prefer one silhouette or house style over the other as opposed to be able to point out the label to friends or let them know that its 'bespoke'? are both able to provide the same array of fabric choices or fabrics of the same quality?

 

[NoNameNecessary]

What do you mean by first upper tier? If you don’t have enough knowledge and experience with suit, it will be neither. Buy enough mid tier suits to know what you truly want. Nobody knows what they want before 5 suits or two years experience of wearing them.
Regarding the comparison, the only needs for MTM is that you have out of portion arms or torso that can be adjusted in MTM. For majority of population, MTM equals good OTR model with alterations.

 

[dauster]

What do you mean by first upper tier? If you don’t have enough knowledge and experience with suit, it will be neither. Buy enough mid tier suits to know what you truly want. Nobody knows what they want before 5 suits or two years experience of wearing them.
Regarding the comparison, the only needs for MTM is that you have out of portion arms or torso that can be adjusted in MTM. For majority of population, MTM equals good OTR model with alterations.

I tend to disagree, I always had an interest in fashion/ classic menswear but did not know much about MTM/bespoke style/ fitting/ tailoring but was able to read up on this forum quickly and gained some inside knowledge that I was missing...
Here are a few key points that I found helpful:

1. Decide on what kind of tailoring style you want - since you like ISAIA I expect you are trying to go for Neapolitan style suits:
Someone on this forum suggested Solito (was just here in SF for a trunk show) - about 3,100 euros or so for a full bespoke 2 piece suit, however, opted for Orazio Luciano and recently had a great experience with Steve from Gentlemen's Footwear in San Diego who came up to San Francisco for a trunk show (GF sells Orazio in the US). I do not have the completed suit back yet but given the nice and solid fit of the RTW suit I am expecting good things. Also feedback from many here on the forum for Orazio/ Steve from GF was great. Same goes for Solito (no personal experience) but I have only looked into it but decided against waiting basically 9-12 months because of the slow turnaround of overseas full bespoke.

2. Also had a great experience with Richard Anderson - also still waiting on my MTM suit about $3,500 for a two piece MTM suit. Obviouly british tailoring/ Savile Row and completely different from ISAIA/Kiton style.

I think number one rule is to educate yourself about how your suit should fit -if you have time try on a few RTW brands in department stores and take pics and post them here. I have learned a lot from just posting a few pics and getting feedback. Then decide on style and make of your suit and then research what gives you best bang for your buck. Given my experience that will not be ISAIA MTM but some tailor like Solito, Orazio or maybe even Rubinacci or even some other tailor I have not heard of but I am sure some member here knows...

Lastly never heard of Harry Rosen bespoke but given the terrible experience I have had with TOM FORD and Zegna as well as the sloppy work that I experienced in department stores around the world I would stay away from anything in the likes of Nordstrom/ Neiman Marcus and whatever the equivalent in the UK might be...

 

[flipstah]

Is Harry Rosen Bespoke just JP Tilford/Samuelsohn?

 

[NoNameNecessary]

I tend to disagree, I always had an interest in fashion/ classic menswear but did not know much about MTM/bespoke style/ fitting/ tailoring but was able to read up on this forum quickly and gained some inside knowledge that I was missing...
Here are a few key points that I found helpful:

1. Decide on what kind of tailoring style you want - since you like ISAIA I expect you are trying to go for Neapolitan style suits:
Someone on this forum suggested Solito (was just here in SF for a trunk show) - about 3,100 euros or so for a full bespoke 2 piece suit, however, opted for Orazio Luciano and recently had a great experience with Steve from Gentlemen's Footwear in San Diego who came up to San Francisco for a trunk show (GF sells Orazio in the US). I do not have the completed suit back yet but given the nice and solid fit of the RTW suit I am expecting good things. Also feedback from many here on the forum for Orazio/ Steve from GF was great. Same goes for Solito (no personal experience) but I have only looked into it but decided against waiting basically 9-12 months because of the slow turnaround of overseas full bespoke.

2. Also had a great experience with Richard Anderson - also still waiting on my MTM suit about $3,500 for a two piece MTM suit. Obviouly british tailoring/ Savile Row and completely different from ISAIA/Kiton style.

I think number one rule is to educate yourself about how your suit should fit -if you have time try on a few RTW brands in department stores and take pics and post them here. I have learned a lot from just posting a few pics and getting feedback. Then decide on style and make of your suit and then research what gives you best bang for your buck. Given my experience that will not be ISAIA MTM but some tailor like Solito, Orazio or maybe even Rubinacci or even some other tailor I have not heard of but I am sure some member here knows...

Lastly never heard of Harry Rosen bespoke but given the terrible experience I have had with TOM FORD and Zegna as well as the sloppy work that I experienced in department stores around the world I would stay away from anything in the likes of Nordstrom/ Neiman Marcus and whatever the equivalent in the UK might be...

You quoted me and disagree about what? First, if you still need to post pictures for fit questions you aren’t ready for bespoke. Second, you can be perfectly happy flushing thousands of dollars down the toilet not knowing what you need. Happy or good experience doesn’t mean it is the objectively right decision. You only truly qualified for bespoke when you know exact button placement, exact lapel roll, pocket distance from edge and curvature. If you can’t point out all of that to your tailor, you are just wasting resources for bespoke. Last, Harry Rosen bespoke is true bespoke. It’s not top notch like Rubinacci and it’s limited to its house style. But it’s fundamentally incorrect to compare true bespoke with MTM no matter whoever offering the service

 

[dauster]

You quoted me and disagree about what? First, if you still need to post pictures for fit questions you aren’t ready for bespoke. Second, you can be perfectly happy flushing thousands of dollars down the toilet not knowing what you need. Happy or good experience doesn’t mean it is the objectively right decision. You only truly qualified for bespoke when you know exact button placement, exact lapel roll, pocket distance from edge and curvature. If you can’t point out all of that to your tailor, you are just wasting resources for bespoke. Last, Harry Rosen bespoke is true bespoke. It’s not top notch like Rubinacci and it’s limited to its house style. But it’s fundamentally incorrect to compare true bespoke with MTM no matter whoever offering the service

I disagree that you need to buy at least 5 suits or two years of wearing the suits to truly know how a suit should fit. I don't disagree that obviously the more suits you buy and time you spend on the subject the more you are becoming an expert on the subject. Also agreed true bespoke vs MTM is not a fair comparison, however, given what I have read here on the forum and my own personal experience it is something that will always come up and I think it is fair to address it...I am fine with it if you think one should only do bespoke once you are basically an expert but I tried to give the OP some (hopefully) helpful and practical experience he can apply immediately.

Again, can't comment on Harry Rosen - no experience. And sure of course I will have a better argument once I actually get my finished suits back... and hopefully they will fit great...below some pics trying on Orazio RTW

 

[breakaway01]

You only truly qualified for bespoke when you know exact button placement, exact lapel roll, pocket distance from edge and curvature. If you can’t point out all of that to your tailor, you are just wasting resources for bespoke.

If this were actually true, the Savile Row houses would all have gone out of business ages ago. The reality is that the majority of bespoke customers do not have the time or interest to get into these details the way people obsess about them on SF. They just want to look good without having to expend a lot of time and effort. $5000 is not a lot of money to them so it’s not “wasting resources”.

 

[theoriginaljath]

FWIW - go with the one you really want...if you don't know assign each to heads or tails and flip a coin, the one you hope it lands on as its in the middle of the air is probably the one you want more.

Also, I would only do ISAIA MTM if the suits generally already kind of work on you but you'd just like to make a tweak here or there, if it totally doesn't work for your body type its likely that MTM wont be able to close all those gaps at once

Focus on construction, aesthetics, and materials - are they both hand made and full canvased? do you prefer one silhouette or house style over the other as opposed to be able to point out the label to friends or let them know that its 'bespoke'? are both able to provide the same array of fabric choices or fabrics of the same quality?

Last time I tried one on the ISAIA suits did work kinda well on me, it would've just been hard to pull the suit in enough for it to suit my body type (broad shoulders, but kinda skinny). I believe the ISAIA suits are full canvassed, and I do prefer more of a silhouette. In regards to fabrics, I'm choosing between two blue's that really "pop" for a fashion piece/summer suit. I'm not sure in regards to the quality, but I would imagine that the quality between ISAIA fabrics and the fabrics that are used for bespoke Harry Rosen would be similar in terms of quality.

What do you mean by first upper tier? If you don’t have enough knowledge and experience with suit, it will be neither. Buy enough mid tier suits to know what you truly want. Nobody knows what they want before 5 suits or two years experience of wearing them.
Regarding the comparison, the only needs for MTM is that you have out of portion arms or torso that can be adjusted in MTM. For majority of population, MTM equals good OTR model with alterations.

First upper tier suit meaning first suit that I'm going to be spending $3000-$3500 on. I have two suits from ZZegna, had two from Brooks Brothers (the 1818 ones) and one MTM by Munro, but looking for a really nice higher end suit if that makes sense. I've worn plenty of suits before and looking to get a "nicer" one so to speak.

I'm guessing others in the thread are right about me not being ready for bespoke, but then the question comes down to how do you know what you can get in bespoke if you haven't gone through the process at least once and truly know what options you have with it?

I tend to disagree, I always had an interest in fashion/ classic menswear but did not know much about MTM/bespoke style/ fitting/ tailoring but was able to read up on this forum quickly and gained some inside knowledge that I was missing...
Here are a few key points that I found helpful:

1. Decide on what kind of tailoring style you want - since you like ISAIA I expect you are trying to go for Neapolitan style suits:
Someone on this forum suggested Solito (was just here in SF for a trunk show) - about 3,100 euros or so for a full bespoke 2 piece suit, however, opted for Orazio Luciano and recently had a great experience with Steve from Gentlemen's Footwear in San Diego who came up to San Francisco for a trunk show (GF sells Orazio in the US). I do not have the completed suit back yet but given the nice and solid fit of the RTW suit I am expecting good things. Also feedback from many here on the forum for Orazio/ Steve from GF was great. Same goes for Solito (no personal experience) but I have only looked into it but decided against waiting basically 9-12 months because of the slow turnaround of overseas full bespoke.

2. Also had a great experience with Richard Anderson - also still waiting on my MTM suit about $3,500 for a two piece MTM suit. Obviouly british tailoring/ Savile Row and completely different from ISAIA/Kiton style.

I think number one rule is to educate yourself about how your suit should fit -if you have time try on a few RTW brands in department stores and take pics and post them here. I have learned a lot from just posting a few pics and getting feedback. Then decide on style and make of your suit and then research what gives you best bang for your buck. Given my experience that will not be ISAIA MTM but some tailor like Solito, Orazio or maybe even Rubinacci or even some other tailor I have not heard of but I am sure some member here knows...

Lastly never heard of Harry Rosen bespoke but given the terrible experience I have had with TOM FORD and Zegna as well as the sloppy work that I experienced in department stores around the world I would stay away from anything in the likes of Nordstrom/ Neiman Marcus and whatever the equivalent in the UK might be...

1. Yeah I've always liked the Italian designers. I don't know why but it's just something about them. I'm up in Toronto Canada so not as many trunk shows and stuff that come up here unfortunately. Or maybe I'm just out of the loop, I don't know.

2. I generally know how suits should fit, I've purchased a few from Brooks Brothers and Harry Rosen (we only have it in Canada, but think like Saks Fifth/Barneys/Neiman Marcus kind of stores). I'm not necessarily looking for best bang for buck, I'm actually looking to splurge a little so that's why ISAIA is on the menu.

In regards to your experience of department stores, what was so bad about the experience?

 

[othertravel]

Last time I tried one on the ISAIA suits did work kinda well on me, it would've just been hard to pull the suit in enough for it to suit my body type (broad shoulders, but kinda skinny). I believe the ISAIA suits are full canvassed, and I do prefer more of a silhouette. In regards to fabrics, I'm choosing between two blue's that really "pop" for a fashion piece/summer suit. I'm not sure in regards to the quality, but I would imagine that the quality between ISAIA fabrics and the fabrics that are used for bespoke Harry Rosen would be similar in terms of quality.



First upper tier suit meaning first suit that I'm going to be spending $3000-$3500 on. I have two suits from ZZegna, had two from Brooks Brothers (the 1818 ones) and one MTM by Munro, but looking for a really nice higher end suit if that makes sense. I've worn plenty of suits before and looking to get a "nicer" one so to speak.

I'm guessing others in the thread are right about me not being ready for bespoke, but then the question comes down to how do you know what you can get in bespoke if you haven't gone through the process at least once and truly know what options you have with it?



1. Yeah I've always liked the Italian designers. I don't know why but it's just something about them. I'm up in Toronto Canada so not as many trunk shows and stuff that come up here unfortunately. Or maybe I'm just out of the loop, I don't know.

2. I generally know how suits should fit, I've purchased a few from Brooks Brothers and Harry Rosen (we only have it in Canada, but think like Saks Fifth/Barneys/Neiman Marcus kind of stores). I'm not necessarily looking for best bang for buck, I'm actually looking to splurge a little so that's why ISAIA is on the menu.

In regards to your experience of department stores, what was so bad about the experience?

Nello used to run Harry’s bespoke shop, but now it’s a younger crew. Don’t know much about their training/experience.

And they don’t seem to have a house style, so it’s hard to get a sense of what the suit will look like.

If you’re looking for high-end, you should consider Canali Exclusive. It’s theje top line with better fabrics and slightly better construction than mainline. But only if you like the cut.

And lastly: make sure your Sales Associate is decent. Some will let you walk out with a terribly-fitting garment.

Do you have an associate you deal with?

 

[NoNameNecessary]

Last time I tried one on the ISAIA suits did work kinda well on me, it would've just been hard to pull the suit in enough for it to suit my body type (broad shoulders, but kinda skinny). I believe the ISAIA suits are full canvassed, and I do prefer more of a silhouette. In regards to fabrics, I'm choosing between two blue's that really "pop" for a fashion piece/summer suit. I'm not sure in regards to the quality, but I would imagine that the quality between ISAIA fabrics and the fabrics that are used for bespoke Harry Rosen would be similar in terms of quality.



First upper tier suit meaning first suit that I'm going to be spending $3000-$3500 on. I have two suits from ZZegna, had two from Brooks Brothers (the 1818 ones) and one MTM by Munro, but looking for a really nice higher end suit if that makes sense. I've worn plenty of suits before and looking to get a "nicer" one so to speak.

I'm guessing others in the thread are right about me not being ready for bespoke, but then the question comes down to how do you know what you can get in bespoke if you haven't gone through the process at least once and truly know what options you have with it?



1. Yeah I've always liked the Italian designers. I don't know why but it's just something about them. I'm up in Toronto Canada so not as many trunk shows and stuff that come up here unfortunately. Or maybe I'm just out of the loop, I don't know.

2. I generally know how suits should fit, I've purchased a few from Brooks Brothers and Harry Rosen (we only have it in Canada, but think like Saks Fifth/Barneys/Neiman Marcus kind of stores). I'm not necessarily looking for best bang for buck, I'm actually looking to splurge a little so that's why ISAIA is on the menu.

In regards to your experience of department stores, what was so bad about the experience?

With bespoke, you can custom everything. The issue is that if you choose ie. a higher button stance you may regret it later, so you need to be sure what you like. If you check the Toronto tailor threads, there are better bespoke tailors but I doubt they can do a true Neapolitan soft jacket like Isaia. You can also try a travel tailor, there are Italian bespoke house trunk show once or twice a year. Overall, I don’t recommend a MTM, try different model of Isaia, Kiton or Attolini and get them tailored if you like the style

 

[rhb57]

If you truly want bespoke, take a look at John Ferrigamo and Brenton co., both of them are located on bloor.

And just a personal opinion, unless it's Savile Row bespoke, go with Isaia.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Hey guys,

Wondering if anyone has an opinion between the following: Harry Rosen bespoke suit vs ISAIA MTM. They’re both around the same price point.
The Harry Rosen bespoke obviously gives the bespoke experience, it would be my first one and I would also be able to learn about what to expect and understand the process. You’d be able to customize virtually anything you want on the suit as well.

On the other hand, I’ve always wanted an ISAIA suit. But it’s only made to measure. I’m big on brands, and typically don’t go for the typical department store brands (Harry Rosen or Holt Renfrew shirts/shoes etc).

I feel that bespoke could possibly be a good enough reason to go with the department store tailors as they would know what they’re doing, but there’s a reason why ISAIA has built their reputation on being some of the nicer suits out there.

So in short, looking for opinions on if you had to make a choice, what would you choose? This is gonna be my first “upper tier” suit so not sure which to go for.

personally, I feel Isaia to be overpriced given its peers. Stylistically I like the brand but some of the off the rack offerings are just too over the top in terms of colors and patterns. Some are nice though. Certainly made to measure would allow you to control for that.

Isaia will give you Neapolitan tailoring. The question to ask yourself is which style fits your needs best.

if you go with Harry Rosen bespoke, you would want to find out who does the tailoring and about their house style.

 

[dauster]

personally, I feel Isaia to be overpriced given its peers. Stylistically I like the brand but some of the off the rack offerings are just too over the top in terms of colors and patterns. Some are nice though. Certainly made to measure would allow you to control for that.

Isaia will give you Neapolitan tailoring. The question to ask yourself is which style fits your needs best.

if you go with Harry Rosen bespoke, you would want to find out who does the tailoring and about their house style.

You do know OP posted this in July 2019?!?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

You do know OP posted this in July 2019?!?

he might still be weighing his options!

thanks for catching that. I hate it when that happens.