Is there a market for high-end shoes in Toronto?

[trader]

I get more compliments on my Pradas than I do on my C&Js, EGs, Aldens, Cheaneys, etc all combined

That's just the way Toronto is. People think of Italian or Hugo Boss and they **** their pants. And rarely do you see people wearing shoes that aren't black. It also sucks that you have to wear rubber soles for 4 months of the year.

 

[literasyme]

OK, just to distance myself from any kind of "blind, nationalistic optic," let me point out that I'm not Canadian, though I live here. I grew up in Europe and lived in the States for a long time, so I think I probably have a decent comparative perspective.

I've no idea what things are like in Calgary. From what little time I've spent in Edmonton, I would agree that Alberta is a cultural wasteland, much like equivalent areas of the US. But the situation you're describing has very little to do with Toronto, which is, after all, what this thread is notionally about.

I do not think the average Torontonian dresses any worse than the average Viennese person. That may have to do with a lamentable international decline in men's style or whatever -- I don't know and frankly, I don't care. I see plenty of people in decent if unexciting business wear in the city, and as I said above, it's not difficult to find high-end tailored clothing in Toronto. What we don't have is the range of high-class department stores of major US or European cities. Holt Renfrew is sort of on its own, and that obviously keeps prices high and sales unexciting. The same isn't true of shoes, and while I think that's annoying, I don't have an obvious explanation. It may be the lack of competition -- presumably Harry Rosen make more money by selling AE at C&J prices than they would selling C&J at prices competitive at least within North America, and since there's no competition, they can get away with it. That doesn't explain why none of the high-end boutiques around Yorkville carry the shoes that would go with the tailored clothes they sell.

As for your larger point, I didn't mean to dismiss Northrop Frye (though his thinking is obviously of largely historical interest now). But his positions on Canadian culture -- his laments about it -- were a product of the 1950s and 60s, and do not hold true any longer. It doesn't take an inferiority complex to list the major cultural differences between Canada and the US, and ignoring those is just a sign of European blinkeredness -- it would be akin to saying that it's hard to see the differences between Germany and Austria from here.

I think there is very little point in entering into some kind of pissing contest over cultural achievements, but the idea that Canada is somehow bereft of authors, artists, musicians, and thinkers of international stature is just absurd. Nor does the vibrancy of a country's culture have much to do with its taste in shoes....

 

[unjung]

Originally Posted by ceaton

Part of it I think is retailers shooting themselves in the foot. Where does Rosen think they can get away with charging $450 Canadian for a pair of Allen Edmonds (which are about the best one can easily get in many provinces, although I wouldn't call them high-end) I can get direct from them (or from my choice of B&M stores) for $295 US (MSRP, let alone on sale)

This absolutely blows my mind. There are other stores here that sell AE as well, and last time I dropped in, they informed me I should snap up a pair of Park Aves right away, because the price would be going up very soon, to $450.

Originally Posted by holymadness

It's depressing, frankly. I'm not sure how any expat can relish the thought of ever going back while those who never left remain blissfully unaware of what they're missing out on.

I don't know about our culture as a whole, but in relation to clothing, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Originally Posted by literasyme

I've no idea what things are like in Calgary. From what little time I've spent in Edmonton, I would agree that Alberta is a cultural wasteland, much like equivalent areas of the US. But the situation you're describing has very little to do with Toronto, which is, after all, what this thread is notionally about.

FYI it's much the same as Toronto, but less greasy. It really should be more formal than Vancouver (and actually in some respects may well be).

 

[literasyme]

Originally Posted by unjung

FYI it's much the same as Toronto, but less greasy. It really should be more formal than Vancouver (and actually in some respects may well be).

Explain? How is Calgary like Toronto?

 

[unjung]

Originally Posted by literasyme

Explain? How is Calgary like Toronto?
Very business-focused and corporate, in short. Remember that Calgary has the second most corporate headquarters in the country, and the most per capita.

 

[Doxe]

There are Santoni and Bontoni shoes available at V Hazelton in TO if you're willing to spend $3,000 on a pair of shoes. Most people are not.

The fact is, Canadians are cheap. Honda and Toyota sell more of their base models in Canada than they do their luxury models for this very reason. Given the overall Canadian tax burden, it is easy to see why Canadians are so tight with their money.

To the cognoscenti, C&J, Lobbs, or G&G might be worth the money, but to most Canadians they are simply overpriced shoes.

You want a snapshot of Canadian culture? Canadians will pay $250 for a graphite hockey stick that has a tendency to break on a hard slap-shot, but they'll be damned if they'll pay more than $50 for a pair of dress shoes. C'est la vie.

On the plus side, one doesn't have to do too much to be the best dressed person in the room. Although, that is also the downside, too.

 

[literasyme]

That's a VERY limited view of Toronto. I wouldn't call the city as whole corporate or business-centred. Remember that it also contains well over 100,000 university students and is the third-largest theatre market in North America....

 

[mimile]

I don't know about Toronto but generally speaking, and being in Halifax, I would note the following:
- People here (99.9% of the population at least) do not know much about good shoes quality,
- they are not ready to pay more than say 100 $ for a pair of shoes,
- they do not know how to take good care of their shoes,
- Daks, the only place where we could get relative quality shoes at relatively acceptable prices closed recently. The same happened in other canadian cities.

This means there is no hope for the near future. Consequence: the only way to get good shoes is to buy from the US or to order from the UK or PLAL.

 

[unjung]

Originally Posted by literasyme

That's a VERY limited view of Toronto. I wouldn't call the city as whole corporate or business-centred. Remember that it also contains well over 100,000 university students and is the third-largest theatre market in North America....

It's also five or six times the size of Calgary. My point is, the two cities have a lot more in common with one another than they do with Montreal or Vancouver. I am suggesting the market for high-end shoes in both cities remains similar, i.e. terrible.

 

[Philip1978]

Originally Posted by Doxe

The fact is, Canadians are cheap. Honda and Toyota sell more of their base models in Canada than they do their luxury models for this very reason. Given the overall Canadian tax burden, it is easy to see why Canadians are so tight with their money.

For the record the No.1 selling Acura Vehicle in Canada is the MDX.

 

[xert]

I think retailers have largely shot themselves in the metaphorical foot with their pricing.

Going back from about ten years ago, the size of the Canadian market and lack of significant online competition meant that retailers were faced with the attractive option of simply marking up mid-market shoes instead of carrying something that actually deserved the price tag.

Originally Posted by osc

For the target demographic that doesn't care price, it's because they are shopping elsewhere either in relatively near places like NYC or in UK/Paris/etc on their semi-annual vacations.

People who were in the know generally tended to have the money necessary to purchase them, which meant their disposable income was such that they probably were congregating around the more fashionable locales and could do their purchasing there. People who weren't in the know and wanted a good pair of shoes would go to a high-end department store and buy the best they could find -- clearly Holt would have nothing but the best, right?

 

[literasyme]

Originally Posted by unjung

It's also five or six times the size of Calgary. My point is, the two cities have a lot more in common with one another than they do with Montreal or Vancouver. I am suggesting the market for high-end shoes in both cities remains similar, i.e. terrible.

And while I don't know about Calgary, I would still disagree with you. Sure, Bay Street is a major aspect of Toronto, but it is culturally much closer to Montreal than to anything I've seen of Alberta. (Much as Montrealers might find that idea abhorrent.)

 

[unjung]

Originally Posted by literasyme

And while I don't know about Calgary, I would still disagree with you. Sure, Bay Street is a major aspect of Toronto, but it is culturally much closer to Montreal than to anything I've seen of Alberta. (Much as Montrealers might find that idea abhorrent.)

I'm not here to argue with you about cities you've never visited. Take my word on it.

 

[literasyme]

I don't need to know Calgary to tell you that Toronto is not, as a whole, a corporate or business-focused city. If you characterize it thus, you're only describing one aspect of a much larger and more diverse community.

 

[audiophilia]

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