I'm not getting sore - What am I doing wrong?

[why]

Originally Posted by skunkworks

To the people at an intermediate weightlifting level, have you tried doing conventional deadlifts and squats, 5x5, at 80% of your 1RM, on the same day? It's nuts.
Yes. It's not that bad. I have a feeling you have a personal aversion to doing them and therefore just claim nobody else should.

This is not about light or heavy in absolute terms. I'm sure DIII college guys squatting 250 and deadlifting 350 seems heavy, but to some of them, that might be 60% of their 1RM. I'm talking when you're doing a heavy, maximum effort day at 80% 1RM and up, there's no way it's a good idea to put squats and deadlifts on the same day.

Why not? Because you said so?

I think you may have misread every single word in my post.

Let me ask again: you said They work very similar muscles, and once you start getting into heavier weights, blowing out those muscles doing one exercise and moving to the next is just an injury waiting to happen. You absolutely do not do volume like that on those exercises when lifting heavy unless you're juicing. What does juicing have to do with 'blowing out those muscles'? There's absolutely no logic to your statement. You're confusing volume and progress with injury from tired muscles and the two have **** all to do with one another.

Originally Posted by skunkworks

Something like that, if you could get through it, would blow out your entire posterior chain and fry your CNS for the rest of the week unless you were on steroids.
What the hell? No it doesn't 'blow out your entire posterior chain'. And what does CNS fatigue have to do with steroids? You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

 

[Grayland]

Why,
What's the problem? Somebody messed up the Slurpee station at work? Jeez, if you have all the answers, then put them out for all to read. I've yet to see you post anything helpful and I get the impression you're not to be taken seriously.

I can't speak for Skunkworks, but I think his take on steroids is that they would aid in recovery. Without them, it would be very hard to handle all-out training. This is the reason many athletes take steroids. It really doesn't seem to be that hard to understand.

 

[Viktri]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

Man, I still cannot do a proper deadlift. My lower back gives up much quicker than the targeted muscles. I feel like I've got a lot of lower back strengthening to do before I can DL effectively. Am I wrong here? Should I be attempting to DL the same amount htat I squat (150-ish, I know its low but I'm weak) or start lower?

BTW, very helpful advice all around.

When I started learning to do deadlifts, I used the bar + 2 10kg weights to practice form.
A guy I was training near suggested using a broom for movement.

150 lbs isn't alot for the deadlift but you should learn to do it properly (it's really not that hard, just keep your back straight at an angle) so drop the weight until you're comfortable.

DL will strengthen your back and if your back is weak this is the exercise you want to be doing.
You can perform other exercises for other muscle groups.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by Grayland

I can't speak for Skunkworks, but I think his take on steroids is that they would aid in recovery. Without them, it would be very hard to handle all-out training. This is the reason many athletes take steroids. It really doesn't seem to be that hard to understand.

They aid in recovery in between training sessions, not in between sets of exercises.

It's hard to understand because it's totally wrong...

 

[skunkworks]

lol why, you are the worst poster in this forum.

 

[why]

Sweet.

 

[Omar1223]

is this how all of you guys do deadlifts?

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BDeadlift.html

 

[why]

Originally Posted by Omar1223

is this how all of you guys do deadlifts?

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BDeadlift.html

Pretty much. There'll be some variation based on femur length, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Milhouse]

Originally Posted by Grayland

I honestly don't find that workout that unbelieveable. It's a very effective workout, but the volume is not super high. I'm 44 and I usually do similar workouts. I usually start with the snatch, move into the C&J, then squat, then deadlift. That way I'm working lighter to heavier and my back is plenty warmed up. However, I won't doubt that you probably used more weight than me! I did notice you only did heavy single deadlifts (and I'm sure it was enough!) That seems to be the argument here: whether or not it's good to do 5 X 5 of deadlifts after doing other heavy compound exercises.


My technique on the C&J was holding me back, which is why I started with that. My wrists are nowhere near as flexible as my shoulders. I could catch snatches pretty low, and thus move a fair amount of weight compared to my C&J.

While I was learning I had to do a ton of squats (OH primarily) and deadlifts to build strength because I didn't have the balance and core strength to catch the lifts in a full squat. I still have trouble with that.

Once I got most of the technique down for the olympic lifts, I found deadlifts weren't helping me increase my numbers the way heavy front and OH squats were. Makes sense, my back was pretty strong (I gained two inches on my waist when I was training hard on olympic lifts).

These days I'm training for endurance. Pretty big shift, but I like variety.

 

[erdawe]

So a questions to throw into the mix about deadlifts.

Does changing grip stance have any adverse affects for injury or otherwise, vs. a set optimal stance (if there truly is such thing)? This is assuming a strive for proper form is in mind.

The reason behind the question is that I feel the different grips seems to work my back fairly differently.

 

[why]

The wider the grip, the smaller the angle between the femurs and lumbar spine. In other words, wider grips force longer ranges of motion for the lower back.

 

[Milhouse]

In addition to what why mentioned, a good solid stance is important. I think it was in Dan John's "From the Ground Up" where it is suggested that you jump up and down lightly three times. The way your feet land is pretty much the stance your body prefers.

As far as injuries, I would do deadlifts with a snatch grip (very wide) and with my grip for the clean & jerk because both of the oly lifts essentially start out with the same motion as a deadlift. I never hurt my back, but I was always sure to lift heavy, rest between each lift, and get really focused on doing the lift. Anecdotal, I know, but it seems pretty safe due to the amount of o-lifters that train in such a way.

I can't speak to the "mixed grip" (for lack of a better term) that a lot of powerlifters use, e.g. one hand facing forward, one hand facing backward. I never used that style of grip.

 

[Nil]

Originally Posted by Milhouse

I can't speak to the "mixed grip" (for lack of a better term) that a lot of powerlifters use, e.g. one hand facing forward, one hand facing backward. I never used that style of grip.

I find using a mixed grip allows me to hold more weight, otherwise it's exactly the same. I do switch which hands are pronated and supinated for each set to prevent any possible muscular imbalances.

 

[Milhouse]

Have you tried using a hook grip? It is how you hold the bar for the o-lifts. Wrap your fingers over your thumb rather than putting your thumb over your fingers. You can find pics on google if you are having trouble imaging this. When I first learned the hook grip, I would put a wrap of cloth athletic tape over my thumbs to make it a bit easier on my thumbs. You get a lot more holding power this way.

 

[Brian SD]

Awesome advice, thanks. I did as told, re: deadlift advice. I think my form was bad before, because today I didn't have any problem with my back, but I did feel a good workout in my legs and gluts. I did what was mentioned above and pulled the bar with 10 kg weights instead of going for the full amount. Even with the significantly reduced volume, I feel like my workouts have been a lot better since I started following the advice here. All I did was 25 squats, 25 light deadlifts, 15 pullups, and some bicep/tricep dumbbell workouts to cool off.

Someone recommended to me to do sumo deadlifts - he said because I have somewhat disproportionately long legs, it would be a better workout for me. Good advice or bad?