I think I hate San Francisco.

[lefty]

Thanks. I hadn't really considered Berkeley. I'll take a look.

lefty

 

[UrbanComposition]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Well, I have lived here, on and off, for 35 years, and every place I have lived has been within a few blocks. I don't particularly like Pacific Heights, though I grew up there part time. I hate the Marina and Cow Hollow. I lived in North Beach after school, when I moved back here by myself, and I loved it, but parking is a huge pain, and good places are few and far between. I live in Russian Hill now, and have for ten years. I like it, we have a lot of space, both in and outside, but the neighborhood is pretty boring, and I don't know if it is the best place for new transplants.

I abhor SOMA, and can't figure out why anybody would live there. Most of the people there are recent transplants, I think. The Mission is fine, but not for me. There is good stuff, but I would rather live in an area that was a little nicer (no offense to Mission folks.) The Castro can be great, but the culture really isn't for me. Clarendon Heights is pretty cool, and there are some great houses up there. Dogpatch is fine, but not for me. The outer areas of the city, which I don't even consider San Francisco at all, like the Richmond, the Sunset and parts beyond are quiet and I can see why they would appeal to a lot of people, but again, not me. I'd live on Nob Hill, but it is kind of like Russian Hill but a bit sketchier. I can't think of others I like or would consider.

As far as outside the city goes, I prefer Berkeley to the other burbs (not that Berkeley considers itself a burb.) I definitely would not go further east than Oakland, which has several great places to live. Mill Valley is fine, but Marin is Marin, and I don't consider that a good thing. If you go south, I think you have to go past the fog, and then it is either ****** or super expensive.

Just moved to the Marina after 11 years in Berkeley, right near the campus. Before that, Nob Hill for a year, and 3 years in China Hill in Oakland.

East Bay has a pretty dull nightlife compared to San Francisco. Berkeley has great food & beer (Triple Rock, Liason, Chez Panisse, et al) but it's a pretty sleepy town - only one place open after midnight, and it's a coffee shop where students cram for their midterms. Too many students, not enough parties. College Ave/Rockridge is similar, but with more parents & strollers. Still kinda dull. And as far as self-importance goes, it's hard to beat the aging hippies who preach a simple life and make 6-figure incomes while living in a sweet rent-controlled bungalow.

Have to say, I kinda dig the Marina, if only because of the conveniences to decent food, bus lines (10 minutes to Toronado is a big plus), great views, and a bit of quiet. I hear people hate on the Marina, but I haven't lived here long enough to get it. I'd probably hang out in other areas (Haight, Mission, etc), but at least the Marina is too out-of-the-way for the aggressive panhandlers & gangbangers.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by UrbanComposition

Just moved to the Marina after 11 years in Berkeley, right near the campus. Before that, Nob Hill for a year, and 3 years in China Hill in Oakland.

East Bay has a pretty dull nightlife compared to San Francisco. Berkeley has great food & beer (Triple Rock, Liason, Chez Panisse, et al) but it's a pretty sleepy town - only one place open after midnight, and it's a coffee shop where students cram for their midterms. Too many students, not enough parties. College Ave/Rockridge is similar, but with more parents & strollers. Still kinda dull. And as far as self-importance goes, it's hard to beat the aging hippies who preach a simple life and make 6-figure incomes while living in a sweet rent-controlled bungalow.

Have to say, I kinda dig the Marina, if only because of the conveniences to decent food, bus lines (10 minutes to Toronado is a big plus), great views, and a bit of quiet. I hear people hate on the Marina, but I haven't lived here long enough to get it. I'd probably hang out in other areas (Haight, Mission, etc), but at least the Marina is too out-of-the-way for the aggressive panhandlers & gangbangers.
The Marina itself is fine. It is the people that suck. No offense, you don't sound like a Marina person from your post.

 

[UrbanComposition]

Originally Posted by iammatt

The Marina itself is fine. It is the people that suck. No offense, you don't sound like a Marina person from your post.
You're right, actually - it's the people I hear get hated on. Often, with eye-rolls and/or vomiting.

 

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by RSS

Lefty ... Iammatt's post above is right on target from my point of view.

I've spent the last 25 years in the Bay Area. Within a year of what I thought was a move to San Francisco (from New York) I settled into a life in the Berkeley Hills ... rather quiet ... but only a five mimute drive from the heart of Berkeley. I'm a fan of the out-of-doors, chamber music, live theater, and quality dining ... and Berkeley gives me all four in quantity and quality.

Surely there is a community here that can offer you what you seek.

I'd add another plus one. I'm from a different economic background than these two but I think they're pretty much right on.
I like Marin more than matt seems to and I think you can avoid the rich snob "marin is marin" types that he mentions. I also like the outdoors a lot and so west marin really works for me.

The east side of SF is where I would likely live, its a bit rougher and has far better weather, although Nob Hill/Russian Hill/ North Beach have amazing houses and views.
Also some nice little shops and old school type places that take a little time to find. I know the tailor that made kiya his denim wedding suit works in NB, and there is a great map/antique print shop, random things like that make the neighborhood pretty appealing to me.

I live in the East Bay and would echo RSS's comments. It's 20 min from my house to downtown with no traffic (an jour with if I'm nor carpooling) and there are good public transportation options for rush hour.
What I really like about it though is that the whole good part of the east bay- N. Oakland through the Berkeley Hills into Albany, is basically a huge really nice residential city/suburb. Of course that works for me as I've got two kids, two cats, a dog and a wife.
Lots of nice, well maintained and cared for houses that were built between 1900-1940 (as well as some newer homes of course) big yards and well established gardens. Nobody ever mentions the gardens but Berkeley has one of the best growing climes in the world, it's basically spring 11 months out of the year. and there are a ton of old established plants, roses, and fruit trees, in every yard to go with well wooded streets and a **** load of parks, large and small. I guess I notice b/c I love to garden but it really adds a lot to the area.
There is very little night life, but there are a ton of nice places to buy nice things. Not so much recreational shopping but more lifestyle shopping, by this I mean wine, several dedicated butchers and fishmongers, great produce, bakeries, **** like that. Oakland is not that bad and adds some character to the area as does Richmond.
Also the east bay regional park district rims the area in the back (the eastern hills) and provides a **** ton of outdoor options.

/ tourist board.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I definitely would not go further east than Oakland, which has several great places to live.
I would agree ... as I'm not a fan of most areas east of the East Bay Hills. But if one likes the heat & sun of summer ... that is where to find it ... out in Contra Costa ... Lafayette, Walnut Creek, Danville, etc. It's also cooler in winter. Frankly I prefer the moderate climate nearer the Bay.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by NorCal

I like Marin more than matt seems to and I think you can avoid the rich snob "marin is marin" types that he mentions. I also like the outdoors a lot and so west marin really works for me.
I agree with you here ... and west Marin is outdoor heaven.

Regarding Berkeley/Albany ... NorCal writes:

Originally Posted by NorCal

Lots of nice, well maintained and cared for houses that were built between 1900-1940 (as well as some newer homes of course) big yards and well established gardens. Nobody ever mentions the gardens but Berkeley has one of the best growing climes in the world, it's basically spring 11 months out of the year. and there are a ton of old established plants, roses, and fruit trees, in every yard to go with well wooded streets and a **** load of parks, large and small. I guess I notice b/c I love to garden but it really adds a lot to the area.
+1 ... the established look of Berkeley was what first attracted me ... especially the gardens.

Originally Posted by NorCal

There is very little night life, but there are a ton of nice places to buy nice things. Not so much recreational shopping but more lifestyle shopping, by this I mean wine, several dedicated butchers and fishmongers, great produce, bakeries, **** like that.
True about the night life ... but a trip into the city is relatively easy. Then again if one likes theatre ... there is Berkeley Repertory ... Aurora Theatre ... Black Repertory Group ... as well as performances at Cal. In terms of music in Berkeley there is the San Francisco Early Music Society, Philharmonia Baroque, Davitt Moroney is now on staff at Cal, Artists Vocal Ensemble, American Bach Soloists, and the list goes on and on. If less cultural is your thing ... there's Freight & Salvage. When it comes to dining there is Rivoli, Chez Panisse, Lalimes, Cesar, and a host of other good restaurants, cafes, and coffee shops ... as well as one of the best assortments of ethnic dining anywhere.

Originally Posted by NorCal

Oakland is not that bad and adds some character to the area as does Richmond.
Oakland has some downright upscale areas ... Piedmont (love the old Albert Farr mansions) and Montclair. And if one likes warehouse/loft living ... Oakland and Emeryville have that. And as for Richmond ... I really like Point Richmond ... both the residential areas and the little downtown around the town square.

Originally Posted by NorCal

Also the east bay regional park district rims the area in the back (the eastern hills) and provides a **** ton of outdoor options.
A five minute walk from my house ... and I'm there. It's heavely. The Tilden (public) Golfcourse ain't bad either.

 

[HORNS]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Well, I have lived here, on and off, for 35 years, and every place I have lived has been within a few blocks. I don't particularly like Pacific Heights, though I grew up there part time. I hate the Marina and Cow Hollow. I lived in North Beach after school, when I moved back here by myself, and I loved it, but parking is a huge pain, and good places are few and far between. I live in Russian Hill now, and have for ten years. I like it, we have a lot of space, both in and outside, but the neighborhood is pretty boring, and I don't know if it is the best place for new transplants.

I abhor SOMA, and can't figure out why anybody would live there. Most of the people there are recent transplants, I think. The Mission is fine, but not for me. There is good stuff, but I would rather live in an area that was a little nicer (no offense to Mission folks.) The Castro can be great, but the culture really isn't for me. Clarendon Heights is pretty cool, and there are some great houses up there. Dogpatch is fine, but not for me. The outer areas of the city, which I don't even consider San Francisco at all, like the Richmond, the Sunset and parts beyond are quiet and I can see why they would appeal to a lot of people, but again, not me. I'd live on Nob Hill, but it is kind of like Russian Hill but a bit sketchier. I can't think of others I like or would consider.

As far as outside the city goes, I prefer Berkeley to the other burbs (not that Berkeley considers itself a burb.) I definitely would not go further east than Oakland, which has several great places to live. Mill Valley is fine, but Marin is Marin, and I don't consider that a good thing. If you go south, I think you have to go past the fog, and then it is either ****** or super expensive.

Good summation.

Protrero Hill has great potential, and its gentrification is not complete enough for me to be happy living there, considering I expect more variety in shops and restaurants to be able to walk to. I find it interesting that the freeway keeps being mentioned in regards to this area, but if you stay west of, say, Connecticut and north of 20th Street, you have the potential for amazing vistas.

The Castro is where I reside, and I chose to buy a house there because of the easy access to many other parts of the city by both car, foot, and train. Also, Castro abuts the Mission with Dolores Park pigeon-holed between the two - so I have the quick and easy access to all that the Mission provides, which I love in its variety, while enabling me to live in a cleaner, safer neighborhood. The restaurants are crap in the Castro because the gheys are more interested in vodka cocktails than high quality food. The few good ones are usually slammed on sites like Yelp because they are "too expensive", which they are not. There are great local shops there as well. Castro really enjoys good weather as well - rarely getting fog that much of the rest of the city becomes enveloped in.

That being said, the Castro has in ways become a parody of itself - a destination for gay men and women from around the country who are obviously giddy and euphoric to just be there. They end up getting drunk and sassy on weekend nights. The net "energy" of the place is very positive, though, and is dynamic into much later hours than other parts of the city.

 

[mordecai]

besides it being kind of dull, i'm not sure why anyone would dislike marin, or it's people. maybe i've just lucked out, but never really encountered anything besides friendly, healthy, and level headed people in Mill Valley, Stinson, Novato, or anywhere else i've visited.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by mharwitt

besides it being kind of dull, i'm not sure why anyone would dislike marin, or it's people. maybe i've just lucked out, but never really encountered anything besides friendly, healthy, and level headed people in Mill Valley, Stinson, Novato, or anywhere else i've visited.

This is like asking why people in SF hate LA. It is just what you do. That said, Mill Valley and Stinson are fine. Novato is like ******* San Bernardino. I have in-laws there. Awful place.

 

[StephenHero]

What's the area by the Legion of Honor that the beaches and golf course winds around? There were some beautiful houses up there on that cliff. That golf course really needs some work though.

 

[HORNS]

Originally Posted by StephenHero

What's the area by the Legion of Honor that the beaches and golf course winds around? There were some beautiful houses up there on that cliff. That golf course really needs some work though.
That cliff by the sea? It's called Sea Cliff.

Yeah, it's beautiful (but don't tell Lefty!)

 

[lefty]

In case I throw myself off the cliff? My tragic days are also behind me.

I'm more of a "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" guy these days.

lefty

 

[UrbanComposition]

Originally Posted by RSS

I agree with you here ... and west Marin is outdoor heaven.

Regarding Berkeley/Albany ... NorCal writes:
+1 ... the established look of Berkeley was what first attracted me ... especially the gardens.

True about the night life ... but a trip into the city is relatively easy. Then again if one likes theatre ... there is Berkeley Repertory ... Aurora Theatre ... Black Repertory Group ... as well as performances at Cal. In terms of music in Berkeley there is the San Francisco Early Music Society, Philharmonia Baroque, Davitt Moroney is now on staff at Cal, Artists Vocal Ensemble, American Bach Soloists, and the list goes on and on. If less cultural is your thing ... there's Freight & Salvage. When it comes to dining there is Rivoli, Chez Panisse, Lalimes, Cesar, and a host of other good restaurants, cafes, and coffee shops ... as well as one of the best assortments of ethnic dining anywhere.

A five minute walk from my house ... and I'm there. It's heavely. The Tilden (public) Golfcourse ain't bad either.
You are so right about Berkeley. It may be a little dull for nightlife (until the new Slim's opens in the old UC theater) but it's got pretty much everything else. And North Shattuck is one of the best walking areas ever. I proposed at the Rose Garden

Tilden is really awesome. Took many hikes/bike rides there. We were right across from campus on Hearst tho, so it was pretty noisy. A couple blocks in and you'd be golden, say, Rose & Walnut. I do miss the Gourmet Ghetto

 

[HORNS]

Originally Posted by lefty

In case I throw myself off the cliff? My tragic days are also behind me.

I'm more of a "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" guy these days.

lefty

No, I just didn't want you to know that there was actually a pretty part of San Fran - so I was just joaking.