Game player?

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

The striving is its own reward.


I guess

Am I the only one tiring of the old(er) guys, stodgy "in my day, people did things properly and men were men!" and thoroughly entrenched in their ways vs. the younger, in touch with their times and without the perspective of 40-60 years on the planet? Perhaps I just haven't been on SF long enough, maybe this is the way it's always been and I'll just get used to it.

IMO, games are a medium with more potential than any other we've seen to date. When the technology advances further, the market keeps growing at the same rate, and it starts attracting the same level talent that film and television does now it'll easily be on par with those as an art form. Perhaps Deus Ex, Half-Life 2, etc. will be the Rear Window, Citizen Kane, etc. of gaming in 30 years. Or maybe there won't be "classics" in the same sense because the medium will have changed so much more than film has over 60 years.

 

[Droog]

Wargamer and published designer of same, of the boardgame and miniatures variety.

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by Brian278

IMO, games are a medium with more potential than any other we've seen to date. When the technology advances further, the market keeps growing at the same rate, and it starts attracting the same level talent that film and television does now it'll easily be on par with those as an art form. Perhaps Deus Ex, Half-Life 2, etc. will be the Rear Window, Citizen Kane, etc. of gaming in 30 years. Or maybe there won't be "classics" in the same sense because the medium will have changed so much more than film has over 60 years.

I often think that gaming is very analogous to film as far as its acceptance as a legitimate art form. Right now I'd say that we're just getting to the start of talkie movies.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

I often think that gaming is very analogous to film as far as its acceptance as a legitimate art form. Right now I'd say that we're just getting to the start of talkie movies.

Would you also agree that the timespan is likely accelerated in gaming? As in, if Half Life was an early Chaplin flick, is the French new wave only a decade away? While the technology certainly has more room to grow than film has in it's century or so, we really haven't seen "art" games being made as I wouldn't think there is any willingness to invest in such exercises the way art movies get made today. Perhaps that's a reflection of the gaming audience's tastes and perhaps it's a reflection of what the industry feels comfortable investing in at this point.

 

[Manny Calavera]

Originally Posted by Brian278

Would you also agree that the timespan is likely accelerated in gaming? As in, if Half Life was an early Chaplin flick, is the French new wave only a decade away? While the technology certainly has more room to grow than film has in it's century or so, we really haven't seen "art" games being made as I wouldn't think there is any willingness to invest in such exercises the way art movies get made today. Perhaps that's a reflection of the gaming audience's tastes and perhaps it's a reflection of what the industry feels comfortable investing in at this point.

I think that's a pretty good summary of the industry. I would argue that we have seen a few "art" titles out of Japan (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Rez) however it's kind of like the post-silent era where most of what we're seeing is a straight-up narrative with stylistic differences. But yeah, the art games are marginalized but they are there and I think as the industry continues to grow, thanks for brands like the Wii and PlayStation, we'll see more creative vision. It's a cool time to be into games.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by jonglover

I think that's a pretty good summary of the industry. I would argue that we have seen a few "art" titles out of Japan (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Rez) however it's kind of like the post-silent era where most of what we're seeing is a straight-up narrative with stylistic differences. But yeah, the art games are marginalized but they are there and I think as the industry continues to grow, thanks for brands like the Wii and PlayStation, we'll see more creative vision. It's a cool time to be into games.

That it is. I think "art" titles become for feasible when the audience grows closer to the size of film and the average age becomes old enough to appreciate such a game, thereby allowing a studio to actually make a profit by producing one. Some interesting things have been attempted to varying degrees of success, i.e. Black and White, Grand Theft Auto's most recent iterations, Deus Ex's non-linear melding of adventure, RPG, and an FPS, Max Payne's noirish backdrop, but the best games are still more refined, engaging versions of a traditional linear narrative. They're still my favorite as well (you'll find no bigger fan of the entire Half-life series than me).

 

[Augusto86]

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

You've just thrown down a mighty gauntlet and I'm debating throwing my chips in with you... What the hell, I think I agree.

Regardless of how it compares to clothing, I will say that Deus Ex was an utterly singular and profound experience.
+10000

 

[Edward Appleby]

I think a lot will change when the generation that started experiencing real games (i.e., not aracade/Atari toys) gets old enough to start becoming a powerful voice in academic/critical circles. Right now there are people in communications departments and mainstream magazines with a cultural bent (New Yorker, etc.) who played games growing up, but they weren't really sophisticated at that point in any way.

When people who played Half-Life in their teens and twenties start becoming professors and cultural critics, I believe the grand legitimization will begin. One already sees articles from time to time in things like Harpers discussing games as a sort of pseudoart, but they rarely conceive of them as anything more than a technical spectacle.

That sea change needs to happen, and gaming needs its Citizen Kane- something with so much raw creativity, invention, and power that the culture is forced to engage it.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

I think a lot will change when the generation that started experiencing real games (i.e., not aracade/Atari toys) gets old enough to start becoming a powerful voice in academic/critical circles. Right now there are people in communications departments and mainstream magazines with a cultural bent (New Yorker, etc.) who played games growing up, but they weren't really sophisticated at that point in any way. When people who played Half-Life in their teens and twenties start becoming professors and cultural critics, I believe the grand legitimization will begin. One already sees articles from time to time in things like Harpers discussing games as a sort of pseudoart, but they rarely conceive of them as anything more than a technical spectacle. That sea change needs to happen, and gaming needs its Citizen Kane- something with so much raw creativity, invention, and power that the culture is forced to engage it.
I agree with all of this, but I think the method of how we experience games might have to change first. World of Warcraft, as pervasive as it is, has barely cracked general awareness, and I would imagine less than 10% of people over 40 know what it is. I think the Southpark episode about it was a cultural landmark that will be looked back upon as a seminal moment when gaming became legitimized in a way---even as they satirized with the accuracy that Southpark typically does a cultural phenomenon. A gaming Citizen Kane won't happen with the current console and PC hardware, and I doubt it will within the next 10 years. Screens need to get bigger, graphics more life-like, controls more intuitive, etc. I'm also skeptical there's an Orson Wells or two among the gaming industry as we speak, but I could be wrong. Nothing in the last year or two has really grabbed me as being a truly great achievement in gaming, but perhaps I'm just exposed to a lot less games than I was as a teenager.

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by Brian278

I agree with all of this, but I think the method of how we experience games might have to change first. World of Warcraft, as pervasive as it is, has barely cracked general awareness, and I would imagine less than 10% of people over 40 know what it is. I think the Southpark episode about it was a cultural landmark that will be looked back upon as a seminal moment when gaming became legitimized in a way---even as they satirized with the accuracy that Southpark typically does a cultural phenomenon. A gaming Citizen Kane won't happen with the current console and PC hardware, and I doubt it will within the next 10 years. Screens need to get bigger, graphics more life-like, controls more intuitive, etc. I'm also skeptical there's an Orson Wells or two among the gaming industry as we speak, but I could be wrong. Nothing in the last year or two has really grabbed me as being a truly great achievement in gaming, but perhaps I'm just exposed to a lot less games than I was as a teenager.

I agree on pretty much all of this. But I'm happy to keep playing, because eventually, years from now, when college gaming majors are trying to outcool one another by building Windows emulation boxes to play Half-Life on, I'll be able to say that I was in the fuckin' mod scene for that game*.






*by which I mean that I spent entirely too much time playing/foruming about them and not that I actually contributed any content

 

[dusty]

I really miss that scene.

 

[mrpologuy]

I purchased a Wii in March and can't stop playing it. I spend over $200 a year on games an dplay several hours a week.

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by dusty

I really miss that scene.

Yeah, and it'll probably never be replicated. Look at HL2. Most of the more ambitious mods haven't even released yet. Graphics are getting good enough now that the amount of detailed work you have to put into mapping and modelling is exponentially greater, not to mention the much higher complexity of the programming involved.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

I agree on pretty much all of this. But I'm happy to keep playing, because eventually, years from now, when college gaming majors are trying to outcool one another by building Windows emulation boxes to play Half-Life on, I'll be able to say that I was in the fuckin' mod scene for that game*.






*by which I mean that I spent entirely too much time playing/foruming about them and not that I actually contributed any content

You're right, it is inevitable. But I don't think it'll be just the gaming majors. The hipsters will wear ironic Starcraft T-shirts.

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by Brian278

The hipsters will wear ironic Starcraft T-shirts.

While standing in line for Diablo XXIII