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First bespoke- but what to ask for?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by totenhosen, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. totenhosen

    totenhosen Active Member

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    Hi,

    I'm going to be getting a bespoke suit made up in Singapore with some fabric I intend to order from Dugdale Bros. Mostly thanks to the sf forum and tc forum I know what to look for in terms of fit.

    In terms of style and fashion however I'm an ignorant but unwilling philistine.

    I believe the tailor, should, help me get the best from my body but I'd like to have some idea of the style I should go for so I have a personal opinion on the matter. Also I'm trying to avoid looking like I've been tailored in a particular part of the world and hope to achieve a more cosmopolitan look (if one exists).

    While Zegna and Hugo Boss models look okay doing -their- thing my body is very much unlike theirs.

    I'm 5'11", wide shoulders thin waist and large ass (mostly muscle though I have probably 12-14% bodyfat, so large ass think footballer). Rather dark features and a relatively big head (judging by my motorcycle helmet).

    The suit will be for business but being from Australia need not be extremely formal. Style wise I like to be incognito with some eccentricities only noticeable to those who take a second look.

    So questions:
    Fabric choice - Was thinking of grey (e.g. like asphalt)- something like gshen's choice here - http://gshen65.tumblr.com/post/5895339386 ...
    OR
    type of dark + pinstripes:
    http://www.dormeuil.jp/fashion/index.htm

    Is the grey too "not business"? Is the dark + pinstripes too "conservative"?

    I don't imagine there's much to fabric choice within the median range that requires specialty knowledge but I just wanted to check. Is there some unwritten rule that for heavy set features/dark hair you should go lighter or darker or something?

    Fabric: I understand 13oz to be a good weight. I think in S.E. Asia they tend to stick with under 13oz and little canvassing etc due to the heat. Is this correct or is 13oz maybe considered heavier/lighter than what I'm thinking? Assuming 13oz would be okay all year round in Australia..

    Pockets - I like straight bottom pockets, slanted top pocket and definitely only 2 bottom pockets (not 2 on the right and 1 on the left like I've seen on some.. ). Is this unfashionable/too conservative? What's the difference in terms of style (e.g. conservative or not) in regards to having the flaps over the bottom pockets?

    Lapel hole - Some suits have a hole on the lapel, what is this for? Is there some rule as to when they should be there?

    Lapel size - Is there some specific rule to this in terms of matching for your face or...?


    Does anyone have any links where typically different suit styles are compared for body types or a good page where I can view suits on real people (e.g. not thin/zegna models)?
     


  2. ajmanouk

    ajmanouk Senior Member

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    By no means am I an expert, but for my first bespoke suit I would probably not select a fabric with Pinstripes (unless I already had a number of well constructed and well fitting solid patterned OTR/MTM suits). How many other suits do you own?
     


  3. totenhosen

    totenhosen Active Member

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    By no means am I an expert, but for my first bespoke suit I would probably not select a fabric with Pinstripes (unless I already had a number of well constructed and well fitting solid patterned OTR/MTM suits). How many other suits do you own?
    Thanks for the reply [​IMG] I have a couple of RTW/OTR suits- neither of which are very well fitted (now) or of great quality (but tailored). One is darker than gshen's posted in the original post, grey with blue pinstripes. The other is straight up black, but I've been told (I think correctly) that with my features I shouldn't go pure black. Both were around $800AUD (plus tailoring) if that means anything.. I should also say that my current job I don't need a suit, I wear jeans and a tshirt. But previously having worked in consulting (which is what I may need the suit for again) I've seen all sorts of people from more conservative huge blocky blue/dark/navy to consultants wearing light grey numbers that seem like a lighter material and more casual look... seems to be quite a variation (at least in Sydney). This means I'm not necessarily looking for one "do everything" suit. If this tailor works out I'll be getting another one over the next few months. Just out of interest why wouldn't you get a pinstripe if it was your only? Is it because it's not versatile enough to be the only suit...? If is it because it's bespoke and would require matching the pattern...?
     


  4. koolhistorian

    koolhistorian Senior Member

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    For a first commission, go with a classical cut - 3 roll 2 for example - mid grey suit - if you are set on Dugdale's have the New Fine Worsteds (on the lighter side, but better for a 9 months suit in subtropical Australia, something like 8961, a good mid grey.
     


  5. totenhosen

    totenhosen Active Member

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    For a first commission, go with a classical cut - 3 roll 2 for example - mid grey suit - if you are set on Dugdale's have the New Fine Worsteds (on the lighter side, but better for a 9 months suit in subtropical Australia, something like 8961, a good mid grey.
    Thank you very much for providing that. I had no idea about identifying the buttons/front e.g. "3 roll 2", "2 1/2" etc and after looking that up after your post I feel better informed and it gives me another search term and item to consider. I also had a look at the 8961 and it looks great - exactly "solid" looking (versatile) but not the usual finance blue/black/navy/grey so thank you again. Just wondering though at 8-9oz is it going to be heavy enough to support a bit more of a structured look? (I dislike this modern day no socks run way model creases everywhere no pads no side canvassing look, I see this on my co-workers "$200 custom made" suits from "Asia" - looks crap imo) Doubly so my concern because I only see this work on thin guys from the Holland and my build is a bit more full. I could be under a misconception here but I recall reading that the material should be matched to the canvas so a really light fabric isn't suited for a really structured look. While I don't want to go too militaristic/ye ol' world I'm wondering where on the spectrum 8-9oz fabric would be..
     


  6. pvrhye

    pvrhye Distinguished Member

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    3-roll-2 is a variation where it's basically a 2 button suit with an extra button hole in the middle of the collar roll. It's classic, but I wouldn't say it's conservative if that's what you're after.

    13oz sounds heavy to me. I'd go 10 or 11 personally. Charcoal is my call for an absolute safety suit, but if you want something with a little more splash, consider a mid gray. I'm really fond of the mid-grey with low contrast chalkstripes look, but it, again, isn't conservative.
     


  7. JTA

    JTA Senior Member

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    The suit will be for business but being from Australia need not be extremely formal. Style wise I like to be incognito with some eccentricities only noticeable to those who take a second look.

    Though you are in Australia, it is better to tailor a sharp and classic one especially for the first one.

    So questions:
    Fabric choice - Was thinking of grey (e.g. like asphalt)- something like gshen's choice here - http://gshen65.tumblr.com/post/5895339386 ...
    OR
    type of dark + pinstripes:
    http://www.dormeuil.jp/fashion/index.htm

    Is the grey too "not business"? Is the dark + pinstripes too "conservative"?

    Grey is excellent colour. I would suggest to go solid for the first bespoke. Even if you have solid ones from OTR but this can be your power suit later.

    I don't imagine there's much to fabric choice within the median range that requires specialty knowledge but I just wanted to check. Is there some unwritten rule that for heavy set features/dark hair you should go lighter or darker or something?

    Fabric: I understand 13oz to be a good weight. I think in S.E. Asia they tend to stick with under 13oz and little canvassing etc due to the heat. Is this correct or is 13oz maybe considered heavier/lighter than what I'm thinking? Assuming 13oz would be okay all year round in Australia..

    13oz is excellent for the drape and not too hot. I'm in Australia too and my last jacket was 400+gr. It's fine if it is partially or quarterly lined or unlined (sleeve only).

    Pockets - I like straight bottom pockets, slanted top pocket and definitely only 2 bottom pockets (not 2 on the right and 1 on the left like I've seen on some.. ). Is this unfashionable/too conservative? What's the difference in terms of style (e.g. conservative or not) in regards to having the flaps over the bottom pockets?

    This is a preference. Flap is classic and formal, though my preference is patch pockets. Not a big fan of slanted nor ticket pocket (except inside patch pocket). Get 'boat shape' breast pocket, stylish.

    Lapel hole - Some suits have a hole on the lapel, what is this for? Is there some rule as to when they should be there?

    Limited knowledge here.

    Lapel size - Is there some specific rule to this in terms of matching for your face or...?

    If you have big head (like myself) compare to your body then the general suggestion would be wide lapel. I like >= 3 inch width (high gorge) with soft roll. 3 rolls 2 buttons, 3 to 2 buttons or 2 buttons. With your height you may get away with 3 buttons as it can look flattering on taller figure.


    My 2 cents.
     


  8. totenhosen

    totenhosen Active Member

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    3-roll-2 is a variation where it's basically a 2 button suit with an extra button hole in the middle of the collar roll. It's classic, but I wouldn't say it's conservative if that's what you're after. 13oz sounds heavy to me. I'd go 10 or 11 personally. Charcoal is my call for an absolute safety suit, but if you want something with a little more splash, consider a mid gray. I'm really fond of the mid-grey with low contrast chalkstripes look, but it, again, isn't conservative.
    Thank you - classic but no conservative is perfectly describing my intention. Cheers for clarifying the weight- appreciate it, sounds like I was aiming too heavy. What do you consider mid grey? Do you have a Dugdale code for what you describe or a picture? Because I like gshen's fabric in the pic in my original post - is that a mid grey with low contrast stripes? (I don't think they're considered chalk)
    My 2 cents.
    Thank you. Looks like 9-13oz is probably okay, I'm getting a feeling of what the range is thanks to everyone's comments. By 13oz being excellent for drape do you mean by lacking it (e.g. being more fitted) ?? I thought lighter = more drape? Thanks for your suggestion on the lapels - I will print this and have it handy to refer to.
     


  9. pvrhye

    pvrhye Distinguished Member

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    Thank you - classic but no conservative is perfectly describing my intention.

    Cheers for clarifying the weight- appreciate it, sounds like I was aiming too heavy.

    What do you consider mid grey? Do you have a Dugdale code for what you describe or a picture? Because I like gshen's fabric in the pic in my original post - is that a mid grey with low contrast stripes? (I don't think they're considered chalk)




    Thank you. Looks like 9-13oz is probably okay, I'm getting a feeling of what the range is thanks to everyone's comments.

    By 13oz being excellent for drape do you mean by lacking it (e.g. being more fitted) ?? I thought lighter = more drape?

    Thanks for your suggestion on the lapels - I will print this and have it handy to refer to.

    That's glen plaid. It has a long business history, so you should be fine. chalk stripes are the wider stripes that look like they were drawn with a stick of chalk. I'd call that mid grey.
     


  10. fxh

    fxh Distinguished Member

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    Seeing you are from Sydney you should ask over on the Australian Members thread. Theres people from Sydney there.

    I might add that the general consensus is that Singapore is not a good place for suit making - with the odd exception. People from Singapore go to HK for clothes.
     


  11. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior Member

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    I might add that the general consensus is that Singapore is not a good place for suit making - with the odd exception. People from Singapore go to HK for clothes.

    Err, since when?
     


  12. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I'm going to be getting a bespoke suit made up in Singapore with some fabric I intend to order from Dugdale Bros. Mostly thanks to the sf forum and tc forum I know what to look for in terms of fit.

    I believe the tailor, should, help me get the best from my body but I'd like to have some idea of the style I should go for so I have a personal opinion on the matter. Also I'm trying to avoid looking like I've been tailored in a particular part of the world and hope to achieve a more cosmopolitan look (if one exists).

    I think this would be difficult. Most Singapore tailors are the old types so they would go for the conservative look. But they can do what you want them to do unless you are nuts like sewing some sequin skull and bones pattern on your back.

    Think there are some hip young guns who are tailors but I think they do shirts.


    The suit will be for business but being from Australia need not be extremely formal. Style wise I like to be incognito with some eccentricities only noticeable to those who take a second look.

    Thats my style too! Why dont you use some purple silk lining inside the suit, noticeable when you open the suit. Saw a guy have it and looks nice.

    Or you can try the Paul Smith upside down suit someone posted like week. Nice!



    So questions:
    Fabric choice - Was thinking of grey (e.g. like asphalt)- something like gshen's choice here - http://gshen65.tumblr.com/post/5895339386 ...
    OR
    type of dark + pinstripes:
    http://www.dormeuil.jp/fashion/index.htm

    Is the grey too "not business"? Is the dark + pinstripes too "conservative"?

    Depends on your industry. Prefer dark colours. MOre versatile than a lighter summer colour.

    Fabric: I understand 13oz to be a good weight. I think in S.E. Asia they tend to stick with under 13oz and little canvassing etc due to the heat. Is this correct or is 13oz maybe considered heavier/lighter than what I'm thinking? Assuming 13oz would be okay all year round in Australia..

    I dont know why you want to order fabric. Most tailors have their own fabric.

    Its only a matter of whether you like it or not. But if you want a unique fabric or thickness or thinness, you would have to bring your own.


    Pockets - I like straight bottom pockets, slanted top pocket and definitely only 2 bottom pockets (not 2 on the right and 1 on the left like I've seen on some.. ). Is this unfashionable/too conservative? What's the difference in terms of style (e.g. conservative or not) in regards to having the flaps over the bottom pockets?

    I've seen 2 bottom pockets on left and right. Niceee.

    Lapel hole - Some suits have a hole on the lapel, what is this for? Is there some rule as to when they should be there?

    Think its decoration. Never used it. My buttonholes are still sewn shut.

    Lapel size - Is there some specific rule to this in terms of matching for your face or...?

    Think you shouldnt try wide lapels if you have broad shoulders.
    Does anyone have any links where typically different suit styles are compared for body types or a good page where I can view suits on real people (e.g. not thin/zegna models)?

    Why dont you check out those GQ mags or style.com.
    For those men's brands, they dont always use anorexic models.


    Aussie Aussie Aussie!
     


  13. NAMOR

    NAMOR Stylish Dinosaur

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  14. GBR

    GBR Distinguished Member

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    Hi,

    I'm going to be getting a bespoke suit made up in Singapore with some fabric I intend to order from Dugdale Bros. Mostly thanks to the sf forum and tc forum I know what to look for in terms of fit.

    In terms of style and fashion however I'm an ignorant but unwilling philistine.

    I believe the tailor, should, help me get the best from my body but I'd like to have some idea of the style I should go for so I have a personal opinion on the matter. Also I'm trying to avoid looking like I've been tailored in a particular part of the world and hope to achieve a more cosmopolitan look (if one exists).

    While Zegna and Hugo Boss models look okay doing -their- thing my body is very much unlike theirs.

    I'm 5'11", wide shoulders thin waist and large ass (mostly muscle though I have probably 12-14% bodyfat, so large ass think footballer). Rather dark features and a relatively big head (judging by my motorcycle helmet).

    The suit will be for business but being from Australia need not be extremely formal. Style wise I like to be So questions:
    Fabric choice - Was thinking of grey (e.g. like asphalt)- something like gshen's choice here - http://gshen65.tumblr.com/post/5895339386 ...
    OR
    type of dark + pinstripes:
    http://www.dormeuil.jp/fashion/index.htm

    Is the grey too "not business"? Is the dark + pinstripes too "conservative"?

    I don't imagine there's much to fabric choice within the median range that requires specialty knowledge but I just wanted to check. Is there some unwritten rule that for heavy set features/dark hair you should go lighter or darker or something?

    Fabric: I understand 13oz to be a good weight. I think in S.E. Asia they tend to stick with under 13oz and little canvassing etc due to the heat. Is this correct or is 13oz maybe considered heavier/lighter than what I'm thinking? Assuming 13oz would be okay all year round in Australia..

    Pockets - I like straight bottom pockets, slanted top pocket and definitely only 2 bottom pockets (not 2 on the right and 1 on the left like I've seen on some.. ). Is this unfashionable/too conservative? What's the difference in terms of style (e.g. conservative or not) in regards to having the flaps over the bottom pockets?

    Lapel hole - Some suits have a hole on the lapel, what is this for? Is there some rule as to when they should be there?

    Lapel size - Is there some specific rule to this in terms of matching for your face or...?




    Does anyone have any links where typically different suit styles are compared for body types or a good page where I can view suits on real people (e.g. not thin/zegna models)?


    Straight, flapped side pockets make sense and not having an outside ticket pocket is fine. Patch pockets are a huge NO.

    Lapel size - have a look around you and see what other people have and you like. Do not be too extreme a good suit should last for years and what is today's fashion may be dreadful just tomorrow.


    What you do need to think about is all the all detail features that you want.

    Coat

    Vents
    Lining - contrast colour or matching
    Inside pockets - how many and what size. Remember that they do not have to be what the tailor wants- it is what you want. So if you want one for your i-Pod on the right, get one. Zips on any of them? You do not need to restrict your self to the standard four (2 breast, pen and one ticket), I have eight to fit in with how how want to use the coat.
    A good example of "incognito with some eccentricities only noticeable to those who take a second look".

    Lapel button hole is for a flower - say at a wedding. Good idea to have one with the loop behind to retain the stem of the flower.


    Trousers

    Fly - zip or button
    belt or self adjusters - if the latter what type.
    Cuffs (turn ups) or not
    slant or straight side pockets
    Two back pockets with button/hole fastening I assume.
    Fob pocket.

    Write your choices down before you go to remond you. If you are new to this , it is so easy to forget some detail and that is not in your interests. Finally do not be put off if the man does not want to do something - it is YOUR suit not his and letting him get away with the least work is not sensible.
     


  15. Sanguis Mortuum

    Sanguis Mortuum Distinguished Member

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    Lapel hole - Some suits have a hole on the lapel, what is this for? Is there some rule as to when they should be there?

    It's for your boutonnière, and the only reason for it to not be functional is to save money on cheap suits. Make sure it's a straight buttonhole and not a key-hole shaped one like ones which actually take a button.
     


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