Double Breasted Fresco

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Concordia

hmmm... "laconic..."
Fresco is a very traditional cloth amongst a certain...demographic. It is hardy but perhaps doesn't keep that crisp, professional office look.

 

[Manton]

Just for the record, "laconic" means "terse" or "concise," i.e., the opposite of verbose or longwinded (thus understandable that the word's meaning would be unknown to you). It comes from Lacedaemon, a part of ancient Sparta, whose people were known for not saying much, especially compared to the verbose Athenians.

Its relevance to cloth escapes me.

 

[dopey]

Newtrane:

FNB is wrong about fresco. Perhaps he has suffered with a bad batch.

More than any other cloth I have used, fresco maintains its crisp appearance and travels well. I have long-standing experience with Holland & Sherry's Crispaire, owning several suits of it, and have found it excellent. More recently, I had a suit made of the Minnis fresco this year, which I just used as the workhorse for international travel last weekend (I ordered it with two pairs of trousers), and it maintained a polished, crisp appearance throughout the trip. I just ordered another suit of an old Lesser wool and mohair blend. Obviously, I like the stuff, based on personal experience.

Apart from the crispness, fresco has two principal features:

It has a relatively porous and open weave, so air travels through it. That makes it relatively breezy to wear and it is why people like it for summer suits.

It has a very dry, rough finish (The H&S Crispaire is smoother than the Minnis but, consequently, less breezy). When you see the cloth in person, you will know whether this is something you like or dislike. I can understand that someone may not like this texture and would prefer something a bit smoother and slicker and more luxurious looking. I like it, but that is your call.

 

[grimslade]

Originally Posted by Manton

Just for the record, "laconic" means "terse" or "concise," i.e., the opposite of verbose or longwinded (thus understandable that the word's meaning would be unknown to you). It comes from Lacedaemon, a part of ancient Sparta, whose people were known for not saying much, especially compared to the verbose Athenians.

Its relevance to cloth escapes me.

Maybe he means the cloth speaks for itself?

No, wait...

 

[newtrane]

If you were a tree, what kind of tree would it be?

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by dopey

Newtrane: FNB is wrong about fresco. Perhaps he has suffered with a bad batch.
That would have to be several bad batches.

Originally Posted by dopey

More than any other cloth I have used, fresco maintains its crisp appearance and travels well. I have long-standing experience with Holland & Sherry's Crispaire, owning several suits of it, and have found it excellent. More recently, I had a suit made of the Minnis fresco this year, which I just used as the workhorse for international travel last weekend (I ordered it with two pairs of trousers), and it maintained a polished, crisp appearance throughout the trip. I just ordered another suit of an old Lesser wool and mohair blend. Obviously, I like the stuff, based on personal experience.
Fresco keeps its shape, it just becomes fuzzier and more burlap like which is no doubt what connoisseurs consider patina.

Originally Posted by dopey

Apart from the crispness, fresco has two principal features: It has a relatively porous and open weave, so air travels through it. That makes it relatively breezy to wear and it is why people like it for summer suits.
So does the plain weave which is softer and smoother.

Originally Posted by dopey

It has a very dry, rough finish (The H&S Crispaire is smoother than the Minnis but, consequently, less breezy). When you see the cloth in person, you will know whether this is something you like or dislike. I can understand that someone may not like this texture and would prefer something a bit smoother and slicker and more luxurious looking. I like it, but that is your call.
This is the laconic effect, which would make me right about Fresco. Maybe youre talking about Fresca which has a crisp, refreshing appeal?

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

That would have to be several bad batches.
Stop buying remnants at Tip Top.

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Fresco keeps its shape, it just becomes fuzzier and more burlap like which is no doubt what connoisseurs consider patina.
This is why I say you are wrong or have had a bad batch. I have lots of frescos and have worn them for many years and have never had this happen. My longest experience is with H&S Crispaire (several suits, owned for many years). Which ones have you had this happen with?

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

So does the plain weave which is softer and smoother.
None of the plain weaves I have looked at are as open and breezy as the frescos. Which do you mean?

 

[newtrane]

Gentlemen, I am getting very much confused now.

Manton: May I ask you what you recommend as summer suitings?

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by newtrane

Gentlemen, I am getting very much confused now.

Manton: May I ask you what you recommend as summer suitings?

I like fresco, but the Minnis 9/10 (and I have two of them) is too hot for me on the hottest days. But it's great for a reasonably warm day. The Minnis 8/9 wears quite a bit lighter.

For other frescos, Woodhouse is terrfic, but I don't know what is up with them. They were acquired last year by Minnis' parent company and were in limbo for a while. It's not clear what will become of their line.

For tropicals -- i.e., lightweight smooth worsteds -- I like Lesser Superfine Tropical (8/9) and Minnis Rangoon. The latter was discontinued, sadly, but you can get what's left at a deep discount.

Beyond that, linen and cotton.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by dopey

Stop buying remnants at Tip Top.
Never been, don't know where it is but it would not surprise me if they have a large inventory of left over Fresco.

Originally Posted by dopey

This is why I say you are wrong or have had a bad batch. I have lots of frescos and have worn them for many years and have never had this happen. My longest experience is with H&S Crispaire (several suits, owned for many years). Which ones have you had this happen with?
Does it matter, I believe it is all woven by the same mill, it is a trade secret or patent or something? Perhaps your tailor did not completely sponge the goods which would preserve them in their initially finished state. A limit number of dry cleanings would continue such preservation. If you ever get caught wearing one in a heavy downpour, you might soon after resemble a cotton ball.

Originally Posted by dopey

None of the plain weaves I have looked at are as open and breezy as the frescos. Which do you mean?
The H. Lessers, the Harrisons. It wont be as airy but that doesn't mean it isn't adequately airy and it does have the added benefit of a more refined look.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

The H. Lessers, the Harrisons. It wont be as airy but that doesn't mean it isn't adequately airy and it does have the added benefit of a more refined look.

Didn't you used to complain that the Lesser Tropicals were "scratchy"?

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Does it matter, I believe it is all woven by the same mill, it is a trade secret or patent or something? Perhaps your tailor did not completely sponge the goods which would preserve them in their initially finished state. A limit number of dry cleanings would continue such preservation. If you ever get caught wearing one in a heavy downpour, you might soon after resemble a cotton ball.
It matters because my experience has been notably different than yours. I have no idea if all the cloths are from the same mill, but I do know that there are noticeable differences between the H&S Crispaire and the Minnis frescos, even in the same weight. I can tell them apart just by looking at the cloth. As for sponging and rain, you have obviously not read my account of wearing a fresco coat (a Crispaire) on the log flume at Coney Island. I remember Logsdail took offense, but the cloth held up just fine. It is really good stuff.

 

[Vintage Gent]

Originally Posted by dopey

More than any other cloth I have used, fresco maintains its crisp appearance and travels well.

This has been my experience, as well.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by dopey

It matters because my experience has been notably different than yours. I have no idea if all the cloths are from the same mill, but I do know that there are noticeable differences between the H&S Crispaire and the Minnis frescos, even in the same weight. I can tell them apart just by looking at the cloth. As for sponging and rain, you have obviously not read my account of wearing a fresco coat (a Crispaire) on the log flume at Coney Island. I remember Logsdail took offense, but the cloth held up just fine. It is really good stuff.

They don't.

Like you, I can tell Minnis from Woodehouse from Crispaire from Finnmeresco at a glance.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by dopey

It matters because my experience has been notably different than yours. I have no idea if all the cloths are from the same mill, but I do know that there are noticeable differences between the H&S Crispaire and the Minnis frescos, even in the same weight. I can tell them apart just by looking at the cloth. As for sponging and rain, you have obviously not read my account of wearing a fresco coat (a Crispaire) on the log flume at Coney Island. I remember Logsdail took offense, but the cloth held up just fine. It is really good stuff.
I believe the Frescos are all made by the same mill perhaps with different specifications for different merchants. If the specs change too much it might not be Fresco within the meaning of the Act. I admit I never developed the super ability to gaze at cloth and divine its contents or to rub it together to test its quality and longevity.

I have never read your Coney Island story but would love to see the link. I would also love to see the suit Mr. Logsdail made for a pooch.