Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[dieworkwear]

Some of the stuff just seemed like an unwillingness to accept the vagaries of life and the inner contradictions of people. You can be an feminist and also want a very conventional wedding in a Marchesa dress. There is nothing that needs to be resolved. There is no betrayal. To insist otherwise is just petty. There are not even any discordant notes. It's just life. People grow, their views change, their tastes can change too.

I'm reminded of this every day when I write about workwear on blog literally called Die, Workwear.

 

[LA Guy]

I'm reminded of this every day when I write about workwear on blog literally called Die, Workwear.

I'm Gen-X, so I will just assume that you are being ironic.

 

[London]

They were usually white women of a certain class, who projected this democratic fantasy while creating hostile work environments for Black women and women of color (Glossier, The Wing, Refinery 29, etc.)

 

[LA Guy]

They were usually white women of a certain class, who projected this democratic fantasy while creating hostile work environments for Black women and women of color (Glossier, The Wing, Refinery 29, etc.)

I don’t know the principals involved, but I do know personally of other, similar cases, and the stories all read similarly. While I’m certainly open to being wrong, my impression is that lot of these people were simply not temperamentally suited nor trained to run companies. Had the companies gotten larger, the board of directors would simply have removed them from the CEO role, but they simply never got to that stage.

The democratic fantasy in these cases was perpetuated by both the founder, and the women who worked for them. The case studies are simply illustrations on the perils of projecting virtue on a leader who is really just an ordinary, flawed, person.

 

[London]

@LA agree with that in some respect especially when those flaws tolerate and/or create racist environments. "Leadership upheld the kind of societal inequality we set out to upend." Audrey Gelman from The Wing

 

[Fuuma]

I think that one line sorta sums up all these things: We are asking our clothes to do too much, and at least if accordhing to that article, the brand was not allowed to evolve naturally with the founder, but was pulled in different directions from staffers and fans who wanted it to be more than it was.

Some of the stuff just seemed like an unwillingness to accept the vagaries of life and the inner contradictions of people. You can be an feminist and also want a very conventional wedding in a Marchesa dress. There is nothing that needs to be resolved. There is no betrayal. To insist otherwise is just petty. There are not even any discordant notes. It's just life. People grow, their views change, their tastes can change too.

While I don't disagree with your second paragraph (who the **** cares if you want to wear a feminine dress for your wedding) it seems what was being sold was a person(a) with some merch attached to it, is it any wonder the persona in question would be judged according to the shifting standards of our time? Live by the sword die by the sword and all that...

 

[cb200]

Just read the full Man Repeller piece and I continue to think Rachel Tashjian is GQ's best contributor. It sounds like the Man Repeller business, like pretty much every media co, was seriously wounded by the impact of Covid and cut budgets from brands. With the social/political complications of this year on top of the blow back from people she was getting - likely earned and somewhat thrust upon her by expectations of her market - on top of this **** sandwich of a year with suddenly dead revenue? Don't blame her for saying, "why bother?" It was her ball. She can take it go home, and have a nap if she wants.

 

[peachfuzzmcgee]

Honestly I feel like this past year, I realized that people expect too much from all these “progressive” companies. Yes, we should try to further minority voices and push for change, but sadly this is part of being a cog in a large slow moving machine. I've worked for lifestyle companies and regular corporate places and find that the biggest difference is usually just the presentation, the background machinations are all very similar.

The place I worked at also had a mini reckoning, started because of BLM posts, turned into a huge deal. People were complaining about racism etc, even when some of those people didn’t have the cleanest hands either. Motivations were muddied, and in the end nothing came of it since they had to fire everyone due to COVID anyway.

 

[Epaulet]

my impression is that lot of these people were simply not temperamentally suited nor trained to run companies. Had the companies gotten larger, the board of directors would simply have removed them from the CEO role, but they simply never got to that stage.

The democratic fantasy in these cases was perpetuated by both the founder, and the women who worked for them. The case studies are simply illustrations on the perils of projecting virtue on a leader who is really just an ordinary, flawed, person.

Totally agree with this. Just because you're a great blogger doesn't mean you're going to be an incredible CEO of a small media company.

I'll also add that the larger scale fashion industry in New York City is responsible for many toxic work environments - particularly for women and people of color. It might seem like "The Devil Wears Prada" is an exaggeration, but I saw routine hazing and cruelty like that on a daily basis when I worked in the corporate offices of Calvin Klein and Saks Fifth Avenue. People are a little bit ****** by default, and I completely understand how someone like Medine Cohen could become that same type of monster once she assumed a leading business role.

 

[clee1982]

Honestly I feel like this past year, I realized that people expect too much from all these “progressive” companies. Yes, we should try to further minority voices and push for change, but sadly this is part of being a cog in a large slow moving machine. I've worked for lifestyle companies and regular corporate places and find that the biggest difference is usually just the presentation, the background machinations are all very similar.

The place I worked at also had a mini reckoning, started because of BLM posts, turned into a huge deal. People were complaining about racism etc, even when some of those people didn’t have the cleanest hands either. Motivations were muddied, and in the end nothing came of it since they had to fire everyone due to COVID anyway.

I'm less cynical about it, I have worked at two very large financial institution, neither are Saint, but one definitely had far superior culture and it shows (working mom/hiring non targeted school/minority, women in higher ups etc.)

edit: and the one with superior culture at least also had superior profit (I wouldn't go as far as saying it actually drive the profit, because I doubt I can quantify that)..., and as far as my working experience goes, better, more dedicated staff

 

[Zamb]

I often see these things as words without works.
I saw so many pledges by so many people in the heat of the moment, to do better. Pledging millions to help small minority owned businesses. To commit 15% of retail space to minority brands etc etc etc.

the irony of it all is that even the CFDA added 4 black members to its board of directors. These included Kirby, Virgil and Carly Cushnie.....the goal was to provide mentorship and help to brands owned by POC...... in the end Cushnie had to close.....because while she was on the CFDA board to help others, she herself needed help and didn’t get it.....

This is like the biblical text that said Jesus saved others but himself he could not save....

Also Abasi Roseborough had to close too.....so all this talk about Black Lives Matter and black designers matter and black businesses matter is all WORDS WITHOUT WORKS.

 

[thatboyo]

Damn, abasi is gone? Was going to commission something with them, explains why I never got a response to my inquiry.

 

[clee1982]

I often see these things as words without works.
I saw so many pledges by so many people in the heat of the moment, to do better. Pledging millions to help small minority owned businesses. To commit 15% of retail space to minority brands etc etc etc.

the irony of it all is that even the CFDA added 4 black members to its board of directors. These included Kirby, Virgil and Carly Cushnie.....the goal was to provide mentorship and help to brands owned by POC...... in the end Cushnie had to close.....because while she was on the CFDA board to help others, she herself needed help and didn’t get it.....

This is like the biblical text that said Jesus saved others but himself he could not save....

Also Abasi Roseborough had to close too.....so all this talk about Black Lives Matter and black designers matter and black businesses matter is all WORDS WITHOUT WORKS.

what's the expectation, like people stopping buying other things and just stop buying these guys?

 

[Sartorium]

While I’m certainly open to being wrong, my impression is that lot of these people were simply not temperamentally suited nor trained to run companies.

This was my impression reading about Outdoor Voices CEO Tyler Haney. She more or less described herself as not taking problems seriously. How can you expect to solve them?

I think a lot of the problem is just venture funding hopping on the hype train. What's hot? Tech companies? Throw money at a bunch of people who say the right lingo in the right order. Women CEOs are the next wave? This one has an established personal brand!

I'm not saying any of these people are an Elisabeth Holmes-level con (definitely a number of the tech bros come much closer to her than women in fashion), but there once was a time when you had to start the company first, then get the financing.

Also Abasi Roseborough had to close too.....so all this talk about Black Lives Matter and black designers matter and black businesses matter is all WORDS WITHOUT WORKS.

This reminds me so much of this clip. I don't know if this is a familiar script outside the PNW but it's so painfully spot on whenever you go to anything artsy out here. It is always, always, a white lady. I have never heard a First Nation's person say these words, or ask for someone else to.

So much of this acknowledging we have to do better is just an ego salve for the cognitive dissonance of people who want to be the hero of their own story but don't want to do the damn work.

Gonna pour one out for AR, damn.

 

[LA Guy]

I really liked some of Abasi'as designs, but I do wish that instead of just taking functional garments (an outdoor vest) and adding really greast cutting and tailoring materials, they had aksi kept some form of performance.

Just as an example - I love my shawl colar vest, but because they made it in beautiful flannel instead of nylon ripstop, but also did not add things like taping at the shoulder hole, the damn thing snagged and tore on its second wear. I would have bought a lot more the stuff had kept a bit more performance. I don't expexct to use it to summit Denali, nut it would be nice if it retained more of it's original functionality. That's one of the reasons that Battenwear worked for me, though I understand that that is different concept altogether. Also why early Engineered Garments worked for me, but much less so in later years.