• Hi, I'm the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear and fashion.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Discussions about the fashion industry thread

LA Guy

Opposite Santa
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
24,526

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,461
Reaction score
46,346
I think that that's a bit disingenuous. While you may contend that it was just a fun, whimsical blog, that's definitely not what it was billed as. If it were, then no one would have cared about the whole Marchesa and traditional wedding thing, for example. It was meant to be a whole lot more than Jian De Leon saying that everything is fire, for example, I think that that was pretty much described in the GQ article that you originally quoted.

re. fashion "scholarship", the things that I've read just seem... out of date even as they come out, like a paper the results of which were relevant at a conference a couple of years ago. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. I'm happy to be shown something I would find worthwhile,.
I'm not sure what you mean. Man Repller was billed as feminist for promoting clothes that weren't about attracting the male gaze. But being feminist doesn't mean you have to be Gloria Steinem.
 

Sartorium

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
1,322
Reaction score
1,145
I'd say she's intelligent too, but this is the fashion industry... people are only "so" intelligent if you know what I mean. It's a job that rewards hustle and savvy over lots of formal education.
I think what you're describing is one kind of intelligence, but not the kind that would succeed in formal education. I think there's a huge bias in society in general towards analytical intelligence over other kinds of intelligences. You're describing someone whose brain grasped a problem and was able to intuit a productive solution.

I think the problem is more that the kind of intelligence she had didn't translate to the kind of intelligence necessary to be the CEO of a company (thinking here of the Outdoor Voices girl, don't know much about Man Repeller), and a bunch of stakeholders were unable to tell the difference between different kinds of "brain success magic" until it was too late. Like when people listen to Kanye's ideas instead of his beats, or Jordan Peterson.
 

LA Guy

Opposite Santa
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
24,526

Fuuma

Franchouillard Modasse
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
26,716
Reaction score
13,035
I think that that's a bit disingenuous. While you may contend that it was just a fun, whimsical blog, that's definitely not what it was billed as. If it were, then no one would have cared about the whole Marchesa and traditional wedding thing, for example. It was meant to be a whole lot more than Jian De Leon saying that everything is fire, for example, I think that that was pretty much described in the GQ article that you originally quoted.

re. fashion "scholarship", the things that I've read just seem... out of date even as they come out, like a paper the results of which were relevant at a conference a couple of years ago. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. I'm happy to be shown something I would find worthwhile,.
I think I posted a few theory book one time that were "ok", I'm not sure you'd like them or anything but I can look if you really want (you're basically right so...).

The discussion about intelligence (a super vague concept) IMHO is irrelevant here. If it amounts to a social fact it is a wave that goes beyond a person so the typical PMC hyper fetishization of intelligence*, already shaky beyond belief, is really of no matter in such a socially driven arc.

*this is very common in the circles where we (we've met a few times I don't think i'm projecting) circulate with and originated from. I'd see it more as an analytical flaw (excessive personnalism) than anything to take into account, after all the same academic people are absolutely not overtaken with that idea when they're discussing wider social phenomena.
 
Last edited:

LA Guy

Opposite Santa
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
24,526

Fuuma

Franchouillard Modasse
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
26,716
Reaction score
13,035
Yeah, I'd be interested. The problem that I've found is really in two areas:
1) There are very few scholars in the area that are up to date on fashion enough to write anything meaningful.
2) The lexicon (rather than the language) of fashion moves considerably faster than academic work.

Anyway, sure, I'd be interested.

This wasn't bad, the problem is the usual one right: criticism of various art/design forms is so indebted to literary criticism that it doesn't seem like a serious, independent discipline. Even cinema suffers from that problem.
 

LA Guy

Opposite Santa
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
24,526

Fuuma

Franchouillard Modasse
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
26,716
Reaction score
13,035

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,461
Reaction score
46,346
That seems lie a cop out. If you brand is political, you can't evade questioning by reverting to "Well, it's just a fun, irreverent blog with outfit inspos."
I don't think her brand was political though? I think it was more about "dressing for yourself," which could be seen as a certain brand of feminism. Leandra is basically known for posting stuff like this





The whole idea was poking fun at the idea that she was dressing in ways that repel men (if you already know this, sorry for the explanation). That, in turn, was branded as a kind of self-empowering, feminist thing to do because it was centered on the woman, not her value in the eyes of men. If you believe in the whole "the personal is political," then this form of dress is political even if you're just engaging in fun whimsy.

Man Repeller can be fun, irreverent, whimsical, kooky, etc. It can also be feminist. But being branded as feminist and liberating doesn't mean you have to pen long essays about feminism like Bell Hooks or Gloria Steinem.

Being in the womenswear space, however, it's hard not to be political in some way in the last four years given the MeToo movement. I think she can be criticized for not engaging with those issues in more meaningful ways (specifically BLM). But Man Repeller was not supposed to be a space for scholarly essays. I don't know if you read their site, but it's basically like any fashion site, just with more kooky-ness. As someone who worked there said at the end of Rachel's essay, she wished that was expanded into queer, androgynous, and other forms of non-conformist dress. But that's still about fun style and not some deep dive into what gender identity means.
 

Fuuma

Franchouillard Modasse
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
26,716
Reaction score
13,035
I believe he's saying it was just there and unavoidable so avoiding discussing it was seen as a choice, that goes of course beyond the economic conditions the brand was facing and the inside power dynamic and into the symbolic realm.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,461
Reaction score
46,346
I believe he's saying it was just there and unavoidable so avoiding discussing it was seen as a choice, that goes of course beyond the economic conditions the brand was facing and the inside power dynamic and into the symbolic realm.
Are you addressing me?

My only point was that it seems unfair to judge a woman's intelligence based on her writing on a fashion website. She may or may not be smart, but it seems unfair to judge it based on essays about 10 fall essentials and how to wear certain clothes. Man Repeller was not a space for deep scholarly essays, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the people who work there aren't smart.

This seems ... highly judgemental? People compartmentalize themselves all the time for certain things. Just because you see one tiny slice of a person online through one very small space doesn't mean you know the person.
 

Fuuma

Franchouillard Modasse
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
26,716
Reaction score
13,035
Are you addressing me?

My only point was that it seems unfair to judge a woman's intelligence based on her writing on a fashion website. She may or may not be smart, but it seems unfair to judge it based on essays about 10 fall essentials and how to wear certain clothes. Man Repeller was not a space for deep scholarly essays, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the people who work there aren't smart.

This seems ... highly judgemental? People compartmentalize themselves all the time for certain things. Just because you see one tiny slice of a person online through one very small space doesn't mean you know the person.
Oh yeah sorry, it was a reply to your post. As indicated in my reply to laguy I think the intelligence discussion has no place here or basically anywhere and is just a PMC myth/blindspot. System over people and all that.I know several people, mostly women, that have had to be in the public eye related to fashion and it is extremely hard not to appear stupid or snobbish and i'd fail misererably so there's also that.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,461
Reaction score
46,346
If you look at my Twitter feed, it's all stupid memes and dumb jokes. If you were to just look at my Twitter feed and know nothing about me, you'd think I was pretty stupid. But in real life, I am pretty stupid.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Work From Home: What's Your Attire?

  • PJs & Slippers

  • Cozy loungewear

  • Casual outfit (wool cardigan, chinos, etc)

  • Suit or sport coat and dress trousers


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
452,501
Messages
9,799,076
Members
204,478
Latest member
Le French
Top