Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[JohnAAG]

Interesting article on Inc.

https://www.inc.com/jeff-barrett/brick-and-mortar-retail-isnt-dead-you-can-save-it-.html

 

[LA Guy]

@OccultaVexillum I think that European brands are slowly catching onto this. They were quite behind on the curve on e-commerce, and I don't believe that many of them processed the impact that online shopping would have on their US sales.

Alden does this in the opposite direction. Alden footwear is radically more expensive in Europe and Asia, primarily due to import taxes. End customers in these regions can certainly save quite a bit if they buy online from a US retailer.. especially if that retailer is willing to mark down the customs declaration. But Alden forbids US-based retailers from shipping outside of North America.

The reason is because they believe that there's a value in having Alden products physically present at storefronts. For all of the online Alden fans, there's many guys who simply won't spend that money without first seeing the item in person. Or first-time customers who become introduced to the brand by seeing it in a store. These stores need to sell a certain volume in order to justify the cost of holding all the stock (multiple styles, sizes, colors), so Alden is conscious to shield them as much as possible from impossible price competition.

I've dropped quite a few European labels from my assortment for not doing this. Admittedly I'm more hardcore than most retailers about this stuff, but value for dollars is one of our defining characteristics, and I won't carry anything if I can't be reasonably competitive with it at all points.

@dieworkwear LOL, why didn't I think to use this strategy! Keep an eye out for my $20,000 cashmere chino. I just need five customers a month!

The bolded part: it stems the tide, but it's not as though it doesn't happen fairly regularly. And if they catch one retailer, there is another one who will do it.

I think that the only brands who have truly successfully done this are brands like Louis Vuitton, who sell primarily through their own stores.

I just don't see price fixing policies as being particularly successful. Probably, the best way to effect this is to have different wholesale prices for retailers in different regions, depending on the tarriffs and duties situation. This way, you remove the advantage a US retailer has over an EU, and vice versa, for certain goods.

Much easier than putting up trade barriers that are laughably easy to get over or around.

 

[OccultaVexillum]

The restrictions that Dries puts on his goods are upheld pretty strictly in my experience. Maybe Dries is an anomaly since a lot of stores would love to carry him and it's not as simple as just contacting his sales people and filling out an order sheet, so the ones that do stock him are not about to jeopardise that relationship.
I can't think of any other labels, at least on the SWD side, that operate the way he does.
But I think the most, if not all, retailers would what they were asked in order to maintain a good relationship with the labels they carry.

 

[LA Guy]

The restrictions that Dries puts on his goods are upheld pretty strictly in my experience. Maybe Dries is an anomaly since a lot of stores would love to carry him and it's not as simple as just contacting his sales people and filling out an order sheet, so the ones that do stock him are not about to jeopardise that relationship.
I can't think of any other labels, at least on the SWD side, that operate the way he does.
But I think the most, if not all, retailers would what they were asked in order to maintain a good relationship with the labels they carry.

I think that you are overestimating he leverage of (most) vendors here. If you are huge, like Ralph Lauren, you can tell any single retailer to do what Steve Bannon purportedly wants to do to himself. Same goes if you are deliberately small but in high demand, like Dries van noten. The vast majority of vendors, however, are not, and are actually needing more retailers. They aren't really in the position to dictate a lot of terms to their retailers. Right now, we've gotten a lot of consumer, observer, and retailer, opinions. It would be nice to hear from, say @NickPollica about how it looks from the vendor side.

 

[OccultaVexillum]

No I understand that. Dries wasn't doing this from the beginning (afaik), he had to create a following and fan base and desirability first.
I was just commenting based on the last few pages of discussion that something like that strategy seems to be a kind of answer for designers and retailers.

 

[Epaulet]

The bolded part: it stems the tide, but it's not as though it doesn't happen fairly regularly. And if they catch one retailer, there is another one who will do it.

I think that the only brands who have truly successfully done this are brands like Louis Vuitton, who sell primarily through their own stores.

I just don't see price fixing policies as being particularly successful. Probably, the best way to effect this is to have different wholesale prices for retailers in different regions, depending on the tarriffs and duties situation. This way, you remove the advantage a US retailer has over an EU, and vice versa, for certain goods.

Much easier than putting up trade barriers that are laughably easy to get over or around.

In my experience, it's pretty successful. If you're an account for a desirable brand (Alden, Edward Green, Dries, Comme Des Garcons), they generally keep tabs on what their retailers are doing. If you're shipping across borders or discounting, they cut off your supply and drop you as an account. It's not foolproof, but it mostly works.

I mean, you'll always have the store selling stuff under the table or the guy doing a "proxy" service, but you just want to avoid a big honking website that clearly sells things cheaper.

For better for for worse, this was why I would never carry Trickers. They certainly approached me enough. No matter what, I couldn't compete with their UK retailers (like Pediwear) on price. And I didn't want someone to buy Trickers from me and then feel like a fool because they could have saved hundreds getting them from the UK.

A few years back, maybe that didn't matter so much... most customers were reticent to order from abroad and you had to be in the know to even realize that the other outlets are there, but retailers in Europe have really woken up to (1) their inherent price advantage and (2) the inclination of US customers to order online, even from abroad, so I think it's more important than ever.

It would be nice if Trickers officially proscribed their UK retailers from shipping to the USA, but they weren't willing to do that. So I wasn't willing to take the risk and buy into $20k worth of stock. Which kind of surprised me, actually. Part of an international selling strategy means ensuring that your accounts have sustainable margins in their respective markets. If they don't make enough money or sell enough stuff, they don't buy more from you. Should be common sense, but that's surprisingly lacking in a lot of the fashion biz.

 

[dieworkwear]

I think that you are overestimating he leverage of (most) vendors here. If you are huge, like Ralph Lauren, you can tell any single retailer to do what Steve Bannon purportedly wants to do to himself. Same goes if you are deliberately small but in high demand, like Dries van noten. The vast majority of vendors, however, are not, and are actually needing more retailers. They aren't really in the position to dictate a lot of terms to their retailers. Right now, we've gotten a lot of consumer, observer, and retailer, opinions. It would be nice to hear from, say @NickPollica about how it looks from the vendor side.

I've seen it happen for Saint Crispin's, Edward Green, Barbour, Engineered Garments, and Alden. Have also seen big stores like Mr. Porter twist the arms of vendors.

Prob true that it doesn't apply to most vendors, but the field is so full of unique models and situations, I don't know why that would matter. Every company is going to have to find the unique set of solutions that work for them.

 

[clee1982]

As a consumer I would say it's not that successful (as far as cross border goes). At least EG wise it's pretty easy. As far as your Tricker experience goes I guess they don't want to piss their current much larger distribution channel (at least then), whom generates significant amount sale abroad. Guess it's a balancing act they have to play

 

[Fuuma]

Dries people also restrict posting (no showroom pics) and will call vendors and mags when their clothing is displayed with lame garments from other brands. They're way more hard about it than the average brand.

 

[dieworkwear]

Dries people also restrict posting (no showroom pics) and will call vendors and mags when their clothing is displayed with lame garments from other brands. They're way more hard about it than the average brand.

Waiting for a brand to call people when they post ugly fit pics online with their clothes.

 

[LA Guy]

Dries people also restrict posting (no showroom pics) and will call vendors and mags when their clothing is displayed with lame garments from other brands. They're way more hard about it than the average brand.

Holy Crap.

So, I went to Mr. Porter to find counter examples, and I really couldn't find anything super lame, "wear it with relaxed jeans for a countercultural weekend look with a bit of subversiveness", type of thing, and could not find it. Maybe this approach works!

 

[mcfly26]

Hey guys, not sure if this would be the correct thread, but I'm doing this research for work and am finding a bit difficult.

I'm supposed to make this presentation about UK's House of Fraser menswear department. Maybe it's due to the fact I'm not British or am used to more high end offerings (selfridges, browns etc), but it's been hard figuring out especially its strengths.

Of course it all depends on their intended positioning and financial results (why change if its working right?), however their stock i lacklustre the least. I'm definitely not their target market, however if anyone has a better understanding of this niche in department stores (john lewis, debenhams) and can offer some light, please let me know. Your help will be appreciated forever

 

[robinsongreen68]

i'm british, not sure what i can tell you..
the only thing i'd buy from hof is duvet covers (which are great). looking on the website the menswear is what a suburban guy might consider a step up from topman/river island: hugo boss, kenneth cole. as you say, there's probably a market for this?
the only one in your list that stands out is john lewis, which is a kind of british institution for good quality household stuff. they're a bit more interesting because they did collaborations with more contemporary designers like casely-hayford, and also produced their own heritage-lite range which is actually quite nice if you like that sort of thing.
actually didn't debenhams do a collab with paddy grant?

 

[clee1982]

I was only in London for 2yr, in my short stay I feel like John Lewis is a step up from bed bath and beyond, maybe a bit like west elm, never bought anything from house of Fraser other than a hat for my mom. I can't say I would buy anything they offer either

 

[MaiLam]

HoF is a bit of a weird one. They're like the step before selfridges/Harvey nichs. The in store offerings will vary based on branch, but it's mid-tier stuff like Barbour, Boss, Levi's, Ted Baker etc. Each brand within the store has its own dedicated staff.

Honestly I'd say they're for the brand-but-not-fashion conscious, but not those who are actually interested/willing to pay for 'luxury' tier stuff