define alcoholism

[TheDarkKnight]

Originally Posted by ramuman

Let me quote this. I may even sig this.

I prefer your fat chicks one.

 

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

I prefer your fat chicks one.
I know...plus I've only had it for a few days, but the dumb in the above post is something this forum might have never seen before.

 

[downwithianbrown]

interesting question. My only word is with the desire to be "diagnosed" with something. Reading bleachboy's descriptions of his struggles with alcoholism indicated that he was pretty clearly an alcoholic. the behavior was right out there. This reminds me of mental illness. There are always going to be clear cut cases. This person took his grandmas car and drove it onto some ones lawn, knocked on the door, and wanted to tell some perfect straangers about his day. Then he spent 3 weeks in bed with the blinds down. So, he is manic depressive etc.
but what about a guy who's a little jovial sometimes and then has down days? does he need to be labeled a manic depressive? Who is that helping? what purpose does that serve?

I think you should talk to your friend and maybe refer him to a therapist to speak to. I am of the opinion that Alcohol is an easy scapegoat for tons of problems that people have. I don't think it's productive to look for a label to fix them all.
I've had stints in my life where i'v drank too much and it's led to some trouble, but I'm glad I didn't brand myself an alcoholic at that point. I worked alot of issues out so now If it want to enjoy alcohol I don't have to deal with a stigma.

 

[Tck13]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

So, lets say you get Parkinson's. Do you have any control over an attack on your nervous system? No. Did you do some egregious action which attributes to the disease? No. There is nothing one can do, or for that matter not do to get PD.

However, if one never injects a needle in ones arm, or takes a drink, one can void being an addict. It is fully self-controllable.

This is 100% untrue.

 

[kwiteaboy]

If it causes (1) functional impairment or (2) distress, it's a disorder.

For people without psychiatric comorbidities, addiction is usually a disorder of choice. Addiction for these people is not characterized by "compulsive" behavior, as addictions have been shown in several studies to respond to incentives, something we do not expect compulsive behaviors to do (e.g., if I offer you a million dollars not to blink when I blow air in your eye, you won't win a million dollars; if I offer you a million dollars not to wink at me, you'll get the money - blinking is compulsive and doesn't respond to incentives, winking is voluntary and responds to incentives). Addiction for the vast majority of people is not a disease characterized by chronic relapse, contrary to what most clinical data show.

That does not mean, however, that addictions are not public health problems, and moralizing public health problems isn't particularly useful.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Tck13

This is 100% untrue.
You can become an alcoholic without drinking alcohol?

 

[CouttsClient]

Originally Posted by downwithianbrown

interesting question. My only word is with the desire to be "diagnosed" with something. Reading bleachboy's descriptions of his struggles with alcoholism indicated that he was pretty clearly an alcoholic. the behavior was right out there. This reminds me of mental illness. There are always going to be clear cut cases. This person took his grandmas car and drove it onto some ones lawn, knocked on the door, and wanted to tell some perfect straangers about his day. Then he spent 3 weeks in bed with the blinds down. So, he is manic depressive etc.
but what about a guy who's a little jovial sometimes and then has down days? does he need to be labeled a manic depressive? Who is that helping? what purpose does that serve?

I think you should talk to your friend and maybe refer him to a therapist to speak to. I am of the opinion that Alcohol is an easy scapegoat for tons of problems that people have. I don't think it's productive to look for a label to fix them all.
I've had stints in my life where i'v drank too much and it's led to some trouble, but I'm glad I didn't brand myself an alcoholic at that point. I worked alot of issues out so now If it want to enjoy alcohol I don't have to deal with a stigma.

Good point

 

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

As for functioning alcoholics, I've known a physics professor hold down a 30 year career while having severe alcoholism. He was a late stage alcoholic long before he got throat cancer from drinking.
.

The problem with this type of thinking is that you have no idea how this person would have functioned sans alcoholism.
Perhaps rather than merely holding down a job he would have bee a leader in research, winning prizes and bettering the world. And you don't really know if and how much his personal life suffered.

Alcohol does not improve performance and it is a stretch to imagine that anyone who "functions" while an addict would not function better if they were sober.

 

[Tck13]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

You can become an alcoholic without drinking alcohol?
The substances that people can be / are addicted to actually restructure pathways in the brain, eventually making the drug more important to the addict than food, water, sex, etc. So, to say that it's a matter of self control is untrue. You can argue that a person should never do anything that might be addictive but trying to prevent someone from ever taking a drink, gambling, shopping, using marijuana, masturbating, using Appreciation, etc. is simply impossible and unrealistic. Plus, for example, obsessive / compulsive behavior can be addictive. That's not just something one just doesn't do. Some people can be addicted to something right after the first use, others can abuse a substance over a long period of time before there are serious signs. In the latter case maybe one could argue that irresponsibility helped the growth of addiction and, in that case, the argument would only be true for a window of time. Additions typically find their way through somehow and it's not really about the substance anyway. The substance abuse is the symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Originally Posted by NorCal

The problem with this type of thinking is that you have no idea how this person would have functioned sans alcoholism.
Perhaps rather than merely holding down a job he would have bee a leader in research, winning prizes and bettering the world. And you don't really know if and how much his personal life suffered.

Alcohol does not improve performance and it is a stretch to imagine that anyone who "functions" while an addict would not function better if they were sober.

Well I take "functioning" to mean getting by, holding down a job. Many people think of a homeless person, or someone having a few vodkas every morning on waking is what every alcoholic is. These are extreme examples.

Yes his personal life suffered and undoubtedly his career would have been much much better, but many alcoholics have jobs and homes so the key point is someone shouldn't think "I'm ok because I don't drink in the morning, and I still have a good job"

It would be much better to catch a problem earlier, before it may reach those stages.

 

[Connemara]

Jon. provides teh epic lulz as usual.

I think my score was 12. Awesome!

 

[blueorigami]

There is no line one crosses into alcoholism. Like all existential dilemmas it has much more in common with "do unto others" than "2 + 2." As much as we want easy, scientific answers like "no more than a glass of wine a day" the arbitrary nature of these standards becomes readily apparent when we attempt to apply them. We are not reducible sums. If your drinking bothers you and/or the ones you love then reconsider your ways. If it does not then what is the problem?

 

[Beetleything]

Lot of blah blah here....

let's quote Dean Martin shall we..

"Your not drunk until you have to hold onto the carpet"



OK.

 

[LabelKing]

Originally Posted by Magician

Good champagne based cocktails aside from the obvious choice of a mimosa?

There are the classics like the Bellini, Kir Royale, but I also like the Death in the Afternoon, which is absinthe plus champagne.

There are a number of cocktails that incorporate champagne as a float, which I find nice too.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Given the situation of the economy, a farcical, and illogical argument which you have constantly been unable to understand. Of course you are so apt to make an ad hominem attack since you (as aforementioned elsewhere in this forum) consume alcohol at a rate which isn't too healthy, to put it mildly.
I admit, I'm pretty much unable to understand all that fancy stuff you are. Yet, even at the rate I consume alcohol, I'm not underemployed, seem to be you know...earning a decent living and have a decent life going. Not bad for someone you are holding to be a simpleton and alcoholic. Maybe you should try it?