DB jacket proportions - lapel width & button position

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

I just think that it is almost impossible to "manage" a mid-line tailor into excellent results when you yourself do not have a realistic sense of proportion.

This is what makes SF so frustrating. I guess it can't help but be a complex process, and one that's hard to learn, but I've been lurking around on here for years and I still can't figure any of what you guys are talking about.

I want to have some nice stuff made up but I will never be able to afford to go to the Row, or to Rubinacci, or whoever. I can afford to go to the mid-level HK tailors. But it seems I'll never know how to direct them. When someone asks for advice, as AJ is doing, it seems all they get is gobbledigook.

Oh, **** this. I need to take up something else. Maybe hiking or something.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by TRINI

Foo - weren't you the one who said that one could essentially have a Tom Ford suit replicated by a bespoke tailor? What you're saying above seems to contradict.
I believe I said that the features the person in question liked in Tom Ford suits could be done by others: structured shoulders, waist suppression, high armholes, etc. In other words, it did not sound like he had any precise reason for preferring the Tom Ford "look" over others. Moreover, I did question whether people are construing a Tom Ford "look" that is actually unique and can't be done by others. In my personal opinion, the cut is quite generic looking. Strong shoulders + waist suppression + wide lapels + moderate length = Tom Ford. Are people seeing more than that? Well, if they are, I'd love to hear it, as I don't see what's so special myself.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

I agree with all of your points. I think, though, those points make the most sense in the context of the best tailors. Define "best" any reasonable way one likes, but no matter what the definition, aj's tailor in Delhi is not one of them. I recall seeing two shots of this tailor's work on aj, including the one in this thread: both are quite bad, exactly in the way that you describe. aj_del seems like a guy who has picked up a bit of knowledge on the interwebs, and a man who definitely has a set of preferences and the degree of means to get them. It is just that he's overgrown his local talent. I also do not think it helps that the exemplar photographs that he has posted seem a bit unrealistic for his body type...he did the same when he was describing how my tailoring fails me because it makes me look less than Emo-model thin. I just think that it is almost impossible to "manage" a mid-line tailor into excellent results when you yourself do not have a realistic sense of proportion. It is in possessing this sense of proportion that explains the success of say, maomao and Parker with their HK tailors...but even with those two demi-gods, there is the odd misfire or two. aj has the appetite, but nowhere to satisfy it unless he goes to one of the world centers of excellent tailoring. And when he goes, he might do best to unlearn projecting RTW images into the bespoke world.
+100 . . . is that self-serving?

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Douglas

This is what makes SF so frustrating. I guess it can't help but be a complex process, and one that's hard to learn, but I've been lurking around on here for years and I still can't figure any of what you guys are talking about.

I want to have some nice stuff made up but I will never be able to afford to go to the Row, or to Rubinacci, or whoever. I can afford to go to the mid-level HK tailors. But it seems I'll never know how to direct them. When someone asks for advice, as AJ is doing, it seems all they get is gobbledigook.

Oh, **** this. I need to take up something else. Maybe hiking or something.

There's a very clear and practical answer for this problem, which is to choose a RTW maker that you like and find a good alterations tailor. Will this produce a product that will stand at the upper reaches of what is possible? Seldom, but sometimes it can, and more often than not, a guy can look very well turned out this way. RTW has the big advantage of offering near endless choice and an easy way to see how something looks.

The worst possible combination is a bad or mediocre tailor with any of the following:

- A gutless, passive customer

- A customer who has no eye

- A customer who is ill informed about what is possible

Any or all together at once? Disaster.


- B

 

[aj_del]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

And when he goes, he might do best to unlearn projecting RTW images into the bespoke world.


- B

Noted, well put.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by aj_del

Noted, well put.

I think that once you acclimate yourself to the extra cost (

), you'll find that going to a top tier tailor becomes a comparitive bargain in terms of lessened irritation and disatisfaction, not to mention superior results.

I do realize, though, you are as geographically far from such tailors as is possible, and that it is not a trivial matter to see them. Hell, I don't even want to go to New York from Boston just to see a tailor or shirtmaker.


- B

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

There's a very clear and practical answer for this problem, which is to choose a RTW maker that you like and find a good alterations tailor. Will this produce a product that will stand at the upper reaches of what is possible? Seldom, but sometimes it can, and more often than not, a guy can look very well turned out this way. RTW has the big advantage of offering near endless choice and an easy way to see how something looks.

The worst possible combination is a bad or mediocre tailor with any of the following:

- A gutless, passive customer

- A customer who has no eye

- A customer who is ill informed about what is possible

Any or all together at once? Disaster.


- B

Well then, disaster is certainly imminent. I will post pictures.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Well then, disaster is certainly imminent. I will post pictures.

I thought that you saw Chan?


- B

 

[mmkn]

Originally Posted by apropos

IMO, if you have to do that, then it doesn't fit perfect. I understand perfectly that divots occur with normal movement, but a simple shrug of my shoulders is enough to restore things back to their initial divot-less state.

True that.

- M

 

[mmkn]

Originally Posted by aj_del

4. Fittings to be completed within one week.

You can't hurry love.

- M

 

[aj_del]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

I think that once you acclimate yourself to the extra cost (

), you'll find that going to a top tier tailor becomes a comparitive bargain in terms of lessened irritation and disatisfaction, not to mention superior results.

I do realize, though, you are as geographically far from such tailors as is possible, and that it is not a trivial matter to see them. Hell, I don't even want to go to New York from Boston just to see a tailor or shirtmaker.


- B

Actually cost is not a huge issue if I am convinced that I would look better. For me superior construction and internal details and cloth are secondary in case finally I dont look good to myself in the mirror.

From my point of view if a person can spend 4000 USD he can also spend 5200 (say) USD. After 1500 it becomes more of an issue of what you want rather than what you can afford. Of course different people will have different amounts and logic.

There's no particular reason why I chose a figure of 4000 and not 3000 or 5000USD. I am from a very poor country and 4000 USD is a lot of money here for the average person. I think even for an average American 4000 USD is a lot of money for a suit for the average Indian it is not expensive but ridiculously expensive.

Geographically the problem is more acute. I dont have to travel internationally on business and I generally take one holiday in Europe a year. The location in Europe is also almost pre-decided since we want to go to a colder place. No sense going to Spain or Italy since whats the point of going from a place with 42 C temperature to a place with 35 C. So generally Austrian Alps, Scandinavia or England is our choice of destination.

Anyways, lets see what I decide in the next 2 months and how it pans out.

 

[maomao1980]

Foo, I don't think any of the HK members are arguing against your point that a house look cannot be replicated by another, so I don't really understand why you are selling to them what's already sold.

BTW, I don't know why you quoted me as your rebuttal that immediately followed has nothing to do with what I asked? Is this some kind of lawyerly tactic?

 

[TRINI]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

There's a very clear and practical answer for this problem, which is to choose a RTW maker that you like and find a good alterations tailor. Will this produce a product that will stand at the upper reaches of what is possible? Seldom, but sometimes it can, and more often than not, a guy can look very well turned out this way. RTW has the big advantage of offering near endless choice and an easy way to see how something looks.

I'd like to think I do this well.

 

[Slewfoot]

Originally Posted by TRINI

I'd like to think I do this well.

For sure. Better than most.

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

I thought that you saw Chan? - B
Nope. Mystery tailor #1. I am not entirely convinced of Chan's greatness, and I am a bit more comfortable at MT#1's price point.

 

[Slewfoot]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Nope. Mystery tailor #1. I am not entirely convinced of Chan's greatness, and I am a bit more comfortable at MT#1's price point.

So there was a Myster Tailor even before Peter Lee? Man, now I'm real confused.