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prasom

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I would definitely consider this unacceptable. That’s just plain bad. LegalEagle has some in veg tan and I don’t recall his looking so dirty when he got them. The brown spots near the midsole are from the polishing wheel used after they apply the edge dressing. Who knows where the dirt and other marks came from. My last two pair of Whites have broken heel stacks ( full vibram outsole) and they both had the gap you show between the outsole and leather heel stack in pic #4. One pair has been returned because of that and a lasting issue. The other I’m keeping because it’s not that bad and the rest of the boots are acceptable and I don’t wanna risk a redo that’s in even worse shape. If I had to guess, who ever is sanding the heels is pushing too hard on the sanding belt/drum and trying to remove too much material at once. I would definitely contact Bakers. I feel your pain man. Only one pair of the 4 I’ve received have been what I would consider perfect.

thanks, I remember when he shared the pics while back and i was so exited after that. But i always had this idea of a quality issue looming in the back of my mind based on what i read on this forum. i already emailed to Bakers. i am bit bummed that i can not ware them until i resolve these issues. I do not think this much of imperfections are acceptable to anyone. I am surprised it passed QC as a brand new pair. Things happen in manufacturing and how the company treats the customer in these cases defines the best vs mediocre suppliers in my opinion. I can understand something not being perfect but there are acceptable levels and then there is this. Hopefully i can get this fixed. I am optimistic based on the service i received so far from Bakers and the comments i read from people who experienced this before. Appreciate your feedback
 

adrs1157

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Jul 19, 2017
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Hi Guys,

my BHs finally arrived. followings are the customization and features. This is my first pair of whites boots. took about 16 weeks (feb 16th to 18th June ) to arrive which is on par with what is in Bakers website. Dealing with Kyle was easy and the customer service from him was fantastic (this was said many times in this forum) Here are the features of the pair.

Customization Cost for Wickett & Craig X White's Boots Custom Baker's Bounty Hunter Wickett & Craig Leathers: Natural Veg Tan (Baker Exclusive) Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Liner: Brown Lace Design: Lace to Toe Pull Loops: No Thanks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe [ $35.00 ] Toe Cap: No Thanks Steel Toe: No Thanks Hardware: All Nickel Eyes Top: Cut Top (standard) Midsole: Double [ $52.00 ] Edge: Brown Heel Base: Standard Heel Lifts: 1/4"Higher Sole: Vibram 700 Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Height: 8 Size - Length: 8.5 Size - Width: EE (Wide) Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Sizing Confirmation: I confirm the size I selected Custom


After inspecting the boots i was surprised to see the quality of the brand new boots i got. i attached a lot of pic with this so you can see it as well. i do not want to make any judgements right out of the gate without any experience in the matter. i would like to ask your opinion on these photos.

this is how this boot came out of the box. i did not even try them yet.
To me this is not an acceptable level of quality for a pair that cost more than $700. i understand it is a hand made product and the hides could have variations. but these imperfections looks like they ware made after it was finished. . looks like it was taken for a stroll. (i am sure it is not the case but it looks like it).
in some imperfections, I could feel it when i run my finger across.

and these imperfections are not localized to one are or one boot. it is all over on both.

i work in manufacturing as well and i understand that it is merely impossible to achieve prefect 100% quality in any process. But as a customer i am having a hard time justifying to keep this.

Please let me know what i should do with this and are these considered acceptable levels of imperfections? Appreciate your suggestions

ask your humble opinion on this. View attachment 1627007View attachment 1627008View attachment 1627009View attachment 1627010View attachment 1627011View attachment 1627012View attachment 1627013View attachment 1627014View attachment 1627015View attachment 1627016View attachment 1627017View attachment 1627018View attachment 1627020View attachment 1627021View attachment 1627022
They're a little banged up but if they're structurally sound, I don't see any issues with these. That leather will brown from box rash alone. Those look like 1 week of wear to me, if that.

I would pay close attention to scratches or holes or cuts etc. But tooling marks and slight discolouration, especially on natural veg tan, is not a concern for me. This leather will show these 'defects' far easier than any other leather.

They look great in my opinion.
 

climbinglife

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thanks, I remember when he shared the pics while back and i was so exited after that. But i always had this idea of a quality issue looming in the back of my mind based on what i read on this forum. i already emailed to Bakers. i am bit bummed that i can not ware them until i resolve these issues. I do not think this much of imperfections are acceptable to anyone. I am surprised it passed QC as a brand new pair. Things happen in manufacturing and how the company treats the customer in these cases defines the best vs mediocre suppliers in my opinion. I can understand something not being perfect but there are acceptable levels and then there is this. Hopefully i can get this fixed. I am optimistic based on the service i received so far from Bakers and the comments i read from people who experienced this before. Appreciate your feedback
Yeah like a few others have said, tough call on these especially with that leather. If the UPS guy tossed the box around the truck you could get some of those marks. Not all though and some of those pics would piss me off as well. I've had 4 pair of White's over 13 years and only the first pair from 2009 was pitch perfect. I can live with some of those pictures, maybe not others if these were my first pair. Good luck and I hope it works out for ya
 

Legal Eagles

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Hi Guys,

my BHs finally arrived. followings are the customization and features. This is my first pair of whites boots. took about 16 weeks (feb 16th to 18th June ) to arrive which is on par with what is in Bakers website. Dealing with Kyle was easy and the customer service from him was fantastic (this was said many times in this forum) Here are the features of the pair.

Customization Cost for Wickett & Craig X White's Boots Custom Baker's Bounty Hunter Wickett & Craig Leathers: Natural Veg Tan (Baker Exclusive) Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Liner: Brown Lace Design: Lace to Toe Pull Loops: No Thanks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe [ $35.00 ] Toe Cap: No Thanks Steel Toe: No Thanks Hardware: All Nickel Eyes Top: Cut Top (standard) Midsole: Double [ $52.00 ] Edge: Brown Heel Base: Standard Heel Lifts: 1/4"Higher Sole: Vibram 700 Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Height: 8 Size - Length: 8.5 Size - Width: EE (Wide) Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Sizing Confirmation: I confirm the size I selected Custom


After inspecting the boots i was surprised to see the quality of the brand new boots i got. i attached a lot of pic with this so you can see it as well. i do not want to make any judgements right out of the gate without any experience in the matter. i would like to ask your opinion on these photos.

this is how this boot came out of the box. i did not even try them yet.
To me this is not an acceptable level of quality for a pair that cost more than $700. i understand it is a hand made product and the hides could have variations. but these imperfections looks like they ware made after it was finished. . looks like it was taken for a stroll. (i am sure it is not the case but it looks like it).
in some imperfections, I could feel it when i run my finger across.

and these imperfections are not localized to one are or one boot. it is all over on both.

i work in manufacturing as well and i understand that it is merely impossible to achieve prefect 100% quality in any process. But as a customer i am having a hard time justifying to keep this.

Please let me know what i should do with this and are these considered acceptable levels of imperfections? Appreciate your suggestions

ask your humble opinion on this. View attachment 1627012
I went back and took a look at mine... I did have one area of dirt / discolorization on the inside of the vamp on one boot...
1624099014364.jpeg

But nothing like yours...

As mentioned by @adrs1157 and @wordfool, it is hard to keep white leather clean in a manufacturing facility, and these are boots, and will get darker and worn, but you still would like a "clean" pair out of the box.

Have you tried gently rubbing the dirty spots with a baby wipe to see if the dirt is on the surface, and would come off?

I did not make a big deal out of mine, but it was rather small and not noticeable...

I would be more concerned from an aesthetic standpoint about the scar in the leather on the toe... someone fell down a little in the clicking department... if you have to use that piece, hide it on an inside counter, not the toe. (As you can see, my computer line drawing skills rival your own!)

I am purely hypothesizing at this point, but my pair was one of the first with this leather, the leather was new, there was lots to choose from, and the rolls had largely been untouched by human hands. It is possible they are now getting toward the end of the order, the leather has been handled and shuffled around on the shelf, and so it gets a bit "dinged up"... again, I am just guessing...
8.JPG
 
Last edited:

Jimk4003

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
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Hi Guys,

my BHs finally arrived. followings are the customization and features. This is my first pair of whites boots. took about 16 weeks (feb 16th to 18th June ) to arrive which is on par with what is in Bakers website. Dealing with Kyle was easy and the customer service from him was fantastic (this was said many times in this forum) Here are the features of the pair.

Customization Cost for Wickett & Craig X White's Boots Custom Baker's Bounty Hunter Wickett & Craig Leathers: Natural Veg Tan (Baker Exclusive) Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Liner: Brown Lace Design: Lace to Toe Pull Loops: No Thanks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe [ $35.00 ] Toe Cap: No Thanks Steel Toe: No Thanks Hardware: All Nickel Eyes Top: Cut Top (standard) Midsole: Double [ $52.00 ] Edge: Brown Heel Base: Standard Heel Lifts: 1/4"Higher Sole: Vibram 700 Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Height: 8 Size - Length: 8.5 Size - Width: EE (Wide) Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Sizing Confirmation: I confirm the size I selected Custom


After inspecting the boots i was surprised to see the quality of the brand new boots i got. i attached a lot of pic with this so you can see it as well. i do not want to make any judgements right out of the gate without any experience in the matter. i would like to ask your opinion on these photos.

this is how this boot came out of the box. i did not even try them yet.
To me this is not an acceptable level of quality for a pair that cost more than $700. i understand it is a hand made product and the hides could have variations. but these imperfections looks like they ware made after it was finished. . looks like it was taken for a stroll. (i am sure it is not the case but it looks like it).
in some imperfections, I could feel it when i run my finger across.

and these imperfections are not localized to one are or one boot. it is all over on both.

i work in manufacturing as well and i understand that it is merely impossible to achieve prefect 100% quality in any process. But as a customer i am having a hard time justifying to keep this.

Please let me know what i should do with this and are these considered acceptable levels of imperfections? Appreciate your suggestions

ask your humble opinion on this. View attachment 1627007View attachment 1627008View attachment 1627009View attachment 1627010View attachment 1627011View attachment 1627012View attachment 1627013View attachment 1627014View attachment 1627015View attachment 1627016View attachment 1627017View attachment 1627018View attachment 1627020View attachment 1627021View attachment 1627022
I think they look pretty rough personally.

That said, it is veg tanned leather, and it will darken, stain and generally patinate pretty dramatically with a little wear anyway. But at the same time, that's a brand new pair of $700 boots, and there's a reason that used boots that are already worn sell for less than brand new boots straight from the factory.

Ultimately though, I don't know if an exchange would be worth it, because after six months a pair of natural veg tan boots will look dramatically more worn than those anyway. For me, this is really more of a 'you don't get a second chance at a first impression' kind of thing, and your first impression here is, understandably, not very good.

See what Bakers say.
 
Last edited:

wordfool

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I would definitely consider this unacceptable. That’s just plain bad. LegalEagle has some in veg tan and I don’t recall his looking so dirty when he got them. The brown spots near the midsole are from the polishing wheel used after they apply the edge dressing. Who knows where the dirt and other marks came from. My last two pair of Whites have broken heel stacks ( full vibram outsole) and they both had the gap you show between the outsole and leather heel stack in pic #4. One pair has been returned because of that and a lasting issue. The other I’m keeping because it’s not that bad and the rest of the boots are acceptable and I don’t wanna risk a redo that’s in even worse shape. If I had to guess, who ever is sanding the heels is pushing too hard on the sanding belt/drum and trying to remove too much material at once. I would definitely contact Bakers. I feel your pain man. Only one pair of the 4 I’ve received have been what I would consider perfect.
how gappy were the heel stacks on your last pairs? My last pair has gaps between vibram outsole (430) and leather heel stacks on both boots. Not huge gaps but very easy to squeeze up and down. I had the same on one boot of an older pair out of the box and hoped that the gap would close up with wear but it actually seemed to get worse over time and has me wondering whether to ask for a re-heel.

I actually wonder if the heel gaps on my last pair are related to the giant heel shelf. if the block heel were sanded down another 1/4” I imagine the heel edge would be closer to the nails and the gap would be smaller and less springy.
 

DG123

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If the work boots fit you well keep them. If you want an off white or light tan pair of leather shoes I am sure some of the Made in England dress shoes brands can deliver pristine product.
 

klank74

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how gappy were the heel stacks on your last pairs? My last pair has gaps between vibram outsole (430) and leather heel stacks on both boots. Not huge gaps but very easy to squeeze up and down. I had the same on one boot of an older pair out of the box and hoped that the gap would close up with wear but it actually seemed to get worse over time and has me wondering whether to ask for a re-heel.

I actually wonder if the heel gaps on my last pair are related to the giant heel shelf. if the block heel were sanded down another 1/4” I imagine the heel edge would be closer to the nails and the gap would be smaller and less springy.
If mine were going to be just casual boots, I might not have been too worried about it. These were meant for work though. I’ma diesel mechanic, so I was concerned about the grease and oil I come into contact with getting in those gaps and wreaking havoc with the leather and any glue in there.
62DEC64E-C7CB-4991-AA8B-CFE62BCB495C.jpeg
9369CD87-BC5E-4641-9C3E-3C1F1233E7BB.jpeg
 

theofficialhung

Senior Member
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Nov 29, 2020
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Hi Guys,

my BHs finally arrived. followings are the customization and features. This is my first pair of whites boots. took about 16 weeks (feb 16th to 18th June ) to arrive which is on par with what is in Bakers website. Dealing with Kyle was easy and the customer service from him was fantastic (this was said many times in this forum) Here are the features of the pair.

Customization Cost for Wickett & Craig X White's Boots Custom Baker's Bounty Hunter Wickett & Craig Leathers: Natural Veg Tan (Baker Exclusive) Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Liner: Brown Lace Design: Lace to Toe Pull Loops: No Thanks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe [ $35.00 ] Toe Cap: No Thanks Steel Toe: No Thanks Hardware: All Nickel Eyes Top: Cut Top (standard) Midsole: Double [ $52.00 ] Edge: Brown Heel Base: Standard Heel Lifts: 1/4"Higher Sole: Vibram 700 Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Height: 8 Size - Length: 8.5 Size - Width: EE (Wide) Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Sizing Confirmation: I confirm the size I selected Custom


After inspecting the boots i was surprised to see the quality of the brand new boots i got. i attached a lot of pic with this so you can see it as well. i do not want to make any judgements right out of the gate without any experience in the matter. i would like to ask your opinion on these photos.

this is how this boot came out of the box. i did not even try them yet.
To me this is not an acceptable level of quality for a pair that cost more than $700. i understand it is a hand made product and the hides could have variations. but these imperfections looks like they ware made after it was finished. . looks like it was taken for a stroll. (i am sure it is not the case but it looks like it).
in some imperfections, I could feel it when i run my finger across.

and these imperfections are not localized to one are or one boot. it is all over on both.

i work in manufacturing as well and i understand that it is merely impossible to achieve prefect 100% quality in any process. But as a customer i am having a hard time justifying to keep this.

Please let me know what i should do with this and are these considered acceptable levels of imperfections? Appreciate your suggestions

ask your humble opinion on this. View attachment 1627007View attachment 1627008View attachment 1627009View attachment 1627010View attachment 1627011View attachment 1627012View attachment 1627013View attachment 1627014View attachment 1627015View attachment 1627016View attachment 1627017View attachment 1627018View attachment 1627020View attachment 1627021View attachment 1627022
Can you use a toothbrush/rag/cloth + warm water/small amount of dish/hand soap to buff away the dirty smudges? Those should clean right off. I'd be more worried about structural issues and the cutting of the welt (can't really tell of it's bad by your pictures). As some have here have already said, natty veg tan leather patinas very easily it's like a blank canvas and will pick up "character" from regular wear more easily than other leather choices.

That said I sympathize with you. Everyone here has experienced some kind of QC issues with MTO Whites it's sort of like a right of passage. Kyle/Baker's will take care of you but I would only send the boots back as a last resort. In my case I had no choice (ripped leather) and my replacement pair is superior. However, these are handmade goods and there are some things about my previous pair that was done better like the welt stitching.
 

Legal Eagles

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If the work boots fit you well keep them. If you want an off white or light tan pair of leather shoes I am sure some of the Made in England dress shoes brands can deliver pristine product.
@DG123 's post and @prasom 's issue is a good example of the dichotomy between a work boot company and a fashion boot company. It has been debated ad nauseam here before, but at the danger of reploughing old ground, to me it comes down to this:

1) Is White's going to be a workboot company or a fashion boot company? @DG123's comment about these being workboots and drawing a comparison to a pair of bespoke English shoes seems a little bit disingenuous... when White's chose to offer the veg tan and latigo leathers from W&C they knew, as did their customers, that these were fashion leathers, not work leathers, and their customers would put them to such use.

2) If White's is going to offer a clearly fashion leather, in natural veg tan,and charge $700 for a pair of boots, they have to have known aesthetics would be important to the consumer, and should have taken more care to meet customer expectations. White's chose to enter this market, and there is nothing wrong with holding White's accountable to that higher standard of quality and aesthetics.

3) Again I find myself coming back to simple QC... it is understandable how this happened, everyone makes mistakes... BUT HOW THE HECK DID THIS NOT GET CAUGHT IN QC INSPECTION? Either at Whites, or at Bakers. The fact that this shipped to the customer tells me one of two things: 1) Either White's or Bakers does not perform visual QC on their final product (very troubling); or 2) They did perform visual QC and determined not once, but twice that this was "acceptable" (potentially even more troubling)... who is running things over there?

I debated posting this, but decided to make my position clear... I respect other opinions, and surely we will hear the usual excuses:

1) How Covid has made things hard for White's;
2) How good help is hard to find;
3) How American manufacturing in general is in decline;
4) How we should give them a break because times are hard;
5) How we should expect and accept this because these are hand made;
6) How we should give them a break because they are a "boot company";
7) How Kyle and Baker's will "make it right" (this one is especially hard to swallow... there is never time to do it right, but always time to do it twice... while the customer waits another 12 weeks for a pair of boots)

There comes a time when if the best accolade one can give is, "Boy they have really poor quality, but when the customer points it out, they are always willing to fix it", a business needs to take a look at the fundamentals of its business model.

It reminds me of the old saying, "We lose money on each transaction, but we will make it up on volume!"

Bottom line, we have been discussing this trend for 5 years... seems like that is plenty of time to get this fashion/workboot thing figured out...

Don't get me wrong, I love White's... when they get it right, they really get it right... but it is because I love the brand so much that I am willing to be critical of them when necessary... I want them to be better... because I know they can be.
 

klank74

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@DG123 's post and @prasom 's issue is a good example of the dichotomy between a work boot company and a fashion boot company. It has been debated ad nauseam here before, but at the danger of reploughing old ground, to me it comes down to this:

1) Is White's going to be a workboot company or a fashion boot company? @DG123's comment about these being workboots and drawing a comparison to a pair of bespoke English shoes seems a little bit disingenuous... when White's chose to offer the veg tan and latigo leathers from W&C they knew, as did their customers, that these were fashion leathers, not work leathers, and their customers would put them to such use.

2) If White's is going to offer a clearly fashion leather, in natural veg tan,and charge $700 for a pair of boots, they have to have known aesthetics would be important to the consumer, and should have taken more care to meet customer expectations. White's chose to enter this market, and there is nothing wrong with holding White's accountable to that higher standard of quality and aesthetics.

3) Again I find myself coming back to simple QC... it is understandable how this happened, everyone makes mistakes... BUT HOW THE HECK DID THIS NOT GET CAUGHT IN QC INSPECTION? Either at Whites, or at Bakers. The fact that this shipped to the customer tells me one of two things: 1) Either White's or Bakers does not perform visual QC on their final product (very troubling); or 2) They did perform visual QC and determined not once, but twice that this was "acceptable" (potentially even more troubling)... who is running things over there?

I debated posting this, but decided to make my position clear... I respect other opinions, and surely we will hear the usual excuses:

1) How Covid has made things hard for White's;
2) How good help is hard to find;
3) How American manufacturing in general is in decline;
4) How we should give them a break because times are hard;
5) How we should expect and accept this because these are hand made;
6) How we should give them a break because they are a "boot company";
7) How Kyle and Baker's will "make it right" (this one is especially hard to swallow... there is never time to do it right, but always time to do it twice... while the customer waits another 12 weeks for a pair of boots)

There comes a time when if the best accolade one can give is, "Boy they have really poor quality, but when the customer points it out, they are always willing to fix it", a business needs to take a look at the fundamentals of its business model.

It reminds me of the old saying, "We lose money on each transaction, but we will make it up on volume!"

Bottom line, we have been discussing this trend for 5 years... seems like that is plenty of time to get this fashion/workboot thing figured out...

Don't get me wrong, I love White's... when they get it right, they really get it right... but it is because I love the brand so much that I am willing to be critical of them when necessary... I want them to be better... because I know they can be.
I think what you said in #7 is similar to a thought I’ve had bouncing around in my head since I had to send one of my pairs back to be redone. Something I always stress to my kids and the younger guys at work. Take your time and do it right the first time, because it’s going to take even longer if you have to do it all over again. I realize with Covid, recent sales, and the start of fire season, that Whites is probably swamped. But wouldn’t it make sense to take the extra time to do an order right the first time, rather than have to start all over from scratch again? My pair that I just sent back were clearly put together on the last crooked. Something, that if I were the guy lasting them, that would probably be my number one priority. And I’m sure that throughout the build process, those boots pass through multiple sets of hands. At no point did anyone stop and say, wait a minute, this doesn’t look right. I just received my 4th pair of Whites yesterday. I have a couple small issues with them, but their small enough that I think I’m just going to wear them and enjoy them. Of the 4, I’ve really only received one pair that really has no issues. I’ll probably continue my business with Whites only because the 38 last works so well for me, but instead looking forward to and being excited to receive an order, I find myself apprehensive to open the box and see what they’ve messed up this time.
 

adrs1157

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@DG123 's post and @prasom 's issue is a good example of the dichotomy between a work boot company and a fashion boot company. It has been debated ad nauseam here before, but at the danger of reploughing old ground, to me it comes down to this:

1) Is White's going to be a workboot company or a fashion boot company? @DG123's comment about these being workboots and drawing a comparison to a pair of bespoke English shoes seems a little bit disingenuous... when White's chose to offer the veg tan and latigo leathers from W&C they knew, as did their customers, that these were fashion leathers, not work leathers, and their customers would put them to such use.

2) If White's is going to offer a clearly fashion leather, in natural veg tan,and charge $700 for a pair of boots, they have to have known aesthetics would be important to the consumer, and should have taken more care to meet customer expectations. White's chose to enter this market, and there is nothing wrong with holding White's accountable to that higher standard of quality and aesthetics.

3) Again I find myself coming back to simple QC... it is understandable how this happened, everyone makes mistakes... BUT HOW THE HECK DID THIS NOT GET CAUGHT IN QC INSPECTION? Either at Whites, or at Bakers. The fact that this shipped to the customer tells me one of two things: 1) Either White's or Bakers does not perform visual QC on their final product (very troubling); or 2) They did perform visual QC and determined not once, but twice that this was "acceptable" (potentially even more troubling)... who is running things over there?

I debated posting this, but decided to make my position clear... I respect other opinions, and surely we will hear the usual excuses:

1) How Covid has made things hard for White's;
2) How good help is hard to find;
3) How American manufacturing in general is in decline;
4) How we should give them a break because times are hard;
5) How we should expect and accept this because these are hand made;
6) How we should give them a break because they are a "boot company";
7) How Kyle and Baker's will "make it right" (this one is especially hard to swallow... there is never time to do it right, but always time to do it twice... while the customer waits another 12 weeks for a pair of boots)

There comes a time when if the best accolade one can give is, "Boy they have really poor quality, but when the customer points it out, they are always willing to fix it", a business needs to take a look at the fundamentals of its business model.

It reminds me of the old saying, "We lose money on each transaction, but we will make it up on volume!"

Bottom line, we have been discussing this trend for 5 years... seems like that is plenty of time to get this fashion/workboot thing figured out...

Don't get me wrong, I love White's... when they get it right, they really get it right... but it is because I love the brand so much that I am willing to be critical of them when necessary... I want them to be better... because I know they can be.
Right on the money. However, as a consumer with $700 to spend on boots, I'm going to do my research and think very hard about what exactly I want for my dollar.

I have owned pairs from Carmina, Crockett & Jones, Enzo Bonafe, Alden, Viberg, Trickers etc. and have had varying degrees of satisfaction in virtually every department - in terms of fit, finish, materials, build quality, durability, weather resistance, weight etc etc.

When I buy a pair from a dress shoe company like Carmina, I expect the finishing to be top shelf and I expect to be able maintain or restore that finish for many years. I want to keep it looking new for longer. However, I acknowledge that it won't be super durable or be very comfortable.

For Whites I know finishing is not their top priority. I look forward to wearing them in for 1 year so they go through a hot summer and cold winter, rain and snow, for the uppers and soles to break in and achieve that legendary comfort. I also prefer the look of them worn. So I put far less into first impressions with the exception of looking for structural defects and obvious damage.

You're completely right that White's should be held accountable for their lackluster finishing, especially at the price point. However if I'm looking for a well finished boot, at the end of the day, my money will simply go to another manufacturer.
 

hoppy_IPA

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@prasom - Congrats on the killer LTT boots in the amazing W&C Natural Veg Tan. There is SO much potential in that leather & is a blank canvas for you to mold.

That said, you clearly have some clicking & finish deficiencies. IMHO, they are not deal breakers though. The smudges are a minor annoyance in the transformation the leather is going to take on. The clicking flaws are certainly not easy on the eye, but it appears they are in places not easily seen. If the fit is good & youre willing to let time melt those flaws Id say keep them. In 6 months I suspect you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and a "perfect" pair.

I don't think anyone would fault you if you requested a rebuild though. Trust your gut. In my experience, it can really nag on you if let the issue slide.


@Legal Eagles - I hear you brother. I gave Whites the Donald Trump treatment; indefinite suspension. Never thought Id ever be in that place but Ive experienced several of the same issues first hand. If it wasn't for their god-tier customer service Id have wrote them off completely and never looked back. One of my very favorite pairs of Horse Hide Bounty Hunters was sent in on warranty for a squeak. They cut them down to single row/close trim and did a hack job on the finish/clicking. I could begrudgingly live with that but they moved the damn Arch-Ease back in my right boot so that it sits nearly in my heal. It's fvcking uncomfortable so I hardly wear them anymore. It pisses me off every time I look at em'.
SMH
Id really like to order some of that W&C veg tan in a Semi Dress but I ain't drop'n that much coin to roll the dice and wait for possibly 6 months
 

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