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Legal Eagles

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Hello to everyone, I have question about sizing issue. Maybe anyone experience same problem. 2 pair in size 8D and 2 pair in size 8.5D all boots look like same length. Thank you in advance.
One shoe size is one barley corn - or because an one inch is "3 barly cornes dry and rounde" - 1/3 of an inch, so one half size is 1/6 of an inch... about 4mm... there is greater variation than this in the welt shelf, how tightly they are lasted, and the geometry of the heel... putting them against the wall with the above variation may not show an appreciable difference in outside overall length... the toe shape and last can also have an effect.

Are all the pairs on the same last? Same width? How do they feel on your feet? A boot with a high arch can pull your toes in and feel longer even if the same size as a low arch boot.
 

klank74

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Ok guys, I have a sizing question before I place my order through Baker's. How close is White's 55 last to one's Brannock size? I typically measure a size 13 on the Brannock, but Kyle has sized me at a 12EE for the left foot, and 11.5EE for the right foot, and he is recommending an instep adjustment for my shallow instep. I am by no means doubting Kyle, I'm just worried that I might have messed up my tracings. He is recommending that I place my order so they can send me a try on pair.

Also, do you guys usually prefer to order online or over the phone with Baker's? Brandon told me I can do either and if ordering online, I can make any special requests in the notes section. I'm looking at doing a pretty basic build, semi dress in brown dress with a toe cap, but I would like to change the toe cap stitching to the vintage style 4 rows of stitching like is found on the MP's, and I'd like to get the toe cap and uppers stitching done in khaki.
 

rustygold

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One shoe size is one barley corn - or because an one inch is "3 barly cornes dry and rounde" - 1/3 of an inch, so one half size is 1/6 of an inch... about 4mm... there is greater variation than this in the welt shelf, how tightly they are lasted, and the geometry of the heel... putting them against the wall with the above variation may not show an appreciable difference in outside overall length... the toe shape and last can also have an effect.

Are all the pairs on the same last? Same width? How do they feel on your feet? A boot with a high arch can pull your toes in and feel longer even if the same size as a low arch boot.
SJ 10" sz 8D have best feel, snug and tight. Another SJ 8" and 7" HH leather, last 4811 and C461 sz. 8D feel loose. #8 CXL F Ranger sz.8.5D super comfortable. Look like you can order right size, but you never know what you will get.
 

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montanamike

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Ok guys, I have a sizing question before I place my order through Baker's. How close is White's 55 last to one's Brannock size? I typically measure a size 13 on the Brannock, but Kyle has sized me at a 12EE for the left foot, and 11.5EE for the right foot, and he is recommending an instep adjustment for my shallow instep. I am by no means doubting Kyle, I'm just worried that I might have messed up my tracings. He is recommending that I place my order so they can send me a try on pair.

Also, do you guys usually prefer to order online or over the phone with Baker's? Brandon told me I can do either and if ordering online, I can make any special requests in the notes section. I'm looking at doing a pretty basic build, semi dress in brown dress with a toe cap, but I would like to change the toe cap stitching to the vintage style 4 rows of stitching like is found on the MP's, and I'd like to get the toe cap and uppers stitching done in khaki.
No suggestions on sizing but I would phone them for the order. The contrast stitching is not an option online and there is a modest cost associated with it. A phone call will let you close the loop in one shot which is almost always a good thing. They are pleasant folks and I have learned a bit from them via the phone which would not be the case online.
 

klank74

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No suggestions on sizing but I would phone them for the order. The contrast stitching is not an option online and there is a modest cost associated with it. A phone call will let you close the loop in one shot which is almost always a good thing. They are pleasant folks and I have learned a bit from them via the phone which would not be the case online.
I think that's what I'll do. I feel better talking to someone when I order, rather than planning the order online and hoping someone got it all.
 

Legal Eagles

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Ok guys, I have a sizing question before I place my order through Baker's. How close is White's 55 last to one's Brannock size? I typically measure a size 13 on the Brannock, but Kyle has sized me at a 12EE for the left foot, and 11.5EE for the right foot, and he is recommending an instep adjustment for my shallow instep. I am by no means doubting Kyle, I'm just worried that I might have messed up my tracings. He is recommending that I place my order so they can send me a try on pair.

Also, do you guys usually prefer to order online or over the phone with Baker's? Brandon told me I can do either and if ordering online, I can make any special requests in the notes section. I'm looking at doing a pretty basic build, semi dress in brown dress with a toe cap, but I would like to change the toe cap stitching to the vintage style 4 rows of stitching like is found on the MP's, and I'd like to get the toe cap and uppers stitching done in khaki.
Sounds about right... trust Kyle...

I order my boots one half (38 Swing) to one full (4811, 55) size shorter in length than my Brannock measurement.

I order my actual Brannock width (4811,55) or one width down (38 Swing).

My feet are also 1/2 width different, but I just order both boots in the wider width to avoid paying the extra fee... IMHO one width plus or minus is almost insignificant in hand welted boots like these... you can get more variation than that with how a particular maker lasts the particular boot.

A try on pair is always a good idea, but make sure they send one in the same last.
 

klank74

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Sounds about right... trust Kyle...

I order my boots one half (38 Swing) to one full (4811, 55) size shorter in length than my Brannock measurement.

I order my actual Brannock width (4811,55) or one width down (38 Swing).

My feet are also 1/2 width different, but I just order both boots in the wider width to avoid paying the extra fee... IMHO one width plus or minus is almost insignificant in hand welted boots like these... you can get more variation than that with how a particular maker lasts the particular boot.

A try on pair is always a good idea, but make sure they send one in the same last.
Well that's good to know. I was also worried because my arches measure a 14-14.5B on the Brannock, but Kyle says this should work. I'll take his word for it and see how the try on pair works.
 

Legal Eagles

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Well that's good to know. I was also worried because my arches measure a 14-14.5B on the Brannock, but Kyle says this should work. I'll take his word for it and see how the try on pair works.
Now that is interesting... when quoting Brannock shoe size, I always measure the heel to toe length and the arch length, and state that I am the larger of the two... so in your case I would not say I am a 13 on the Brannock, I would say I am a 14.5.

Now we are talking about going down not one size in length, but 2.5... that is where I might get nervous about the arch fitting the right place on the foot (from those measurements I take it you have a long arch and really short toes).

The overall length might work, but your arch might be in the wrong place... not a big deal in Chuck Taylors, but a really big deal in White's boots.

But again you told this to Kyle and sent tracings and he still put you in the 12EE (which seems wide now that you mention your Brannock width is a B)... but again, Kyle knows best.

I would say in light of the difference between you heel to toe and arch length size, and the instep adjustment, be sure to avail yourself of the try on pair and give Kyle lots of feedback.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a paid of boots or shoes on the Alden Trubalance last? What size, width, and how do they fit?
 

klank74

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I usually try to fit my arch when trying on boots as well. I'm not too worried about the width. I think the width will be ok, in that length anyways. I'll go with Kyle's recommendation and see how the try on pair fits.

I have no experience with any well known lasts, other than redwings iron rangers. I did mention to Kyle that I have a pair in a 12D, but that maybe I shouldn't have. I haven't worn them in a couple years (lack of arch support kills my lower back). I bought them at a time where I had been wearing boots to small for me to compensate for my shallow instep. My feet have spread out since then. They still fit, but with thinner cotton socks.
 

Legal Eagles

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I usually try to fit my arch when trying on boots as well. I'm not too worried about the width. I think the width will be ok, in that length anyways. I'll go with Kyle's recommendation and see how the try on pair fits.

I have no experience with any well known lasts, other than redwings iron rangers. I did mention to Kyle that I have a pair in a 12D, but that maybe I shouldn't have. I haven't worn them in a couple years (lack of arch support kills my lower back). I bought them at a time where I had been wearing boots to small for me to compensate for my shallow instep. My feet have spread out since then. They still fit, but with thinner cotton socks.
Redwing Iron Ranger is on the Redwing #8 last... a famous last in the boot world, well known, and constant. If you know your fit in Red Wing #8, you have an invaluable piece of information for boot sizing even if you did not realize it.

My fit in the White's 55 last is the same length as on the Red #8, but one width wider. If 12D Iron rangers fit you with thin socks, then a 12E would likely fit you with regular socks, and if you add one width (like I do) you get 12EE which is what Kyle recommended and Bob's your uncle.

That one piece of information... Red Wing #8 12D fits me tight with thin socks, is the key.

Now everyone's feet are different, and there are many people who know a lot more about this than I do, but to me this at least confirms that you are in the correct ballpark!

Good Luck.
 

montanamike

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Redwing Iron Ranger is on the Redwing #8 last... a famous last in the boot world, well known, and constant. If you know your fit in Red Wing #8, you have an invaluable piece of information for boot sizing even if you did not realize it.

My fit in the White's 55 last is the same length as on the Red #8, but one width wider. If 12D Iron rangers fit you with thin socks, then a 12E would likely fit you with regular socks, and if you add one width (like I do) you get 12EE which is what Kyle recommended and Bob's your uncle.

That one piece of information... Red Wing #8 12D fits me tight with thin socks, is the key.

Now everyone's feet are different, and there are many people who know a lot more about this than I do, but to me this at least confirms that you are in the correct ballpark!

Good Luck.
A 2nd information point, Iron Rangers for me 13D (a bit snug in width). Whites 13EE (fit great). As suggested above, there is room for variation with personal preference but you can start to draw a conclusion what is at least likely for you.
 

klank74

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Redwing Iron Ranger is on the Redwing #8 last... a famous last in the boot world, well known, and constant. If you know your fit in Red Wing #8, you have an invaluable piece of information for boot sizing even if you did not realize it.

My fit in the White's 55 last is the same length as on the Red #8, but one width wider. If 12D Iron rangers fit you with thin socks, then a 12E would likely fit you with regular socks, and if you add one width (like I do) you get 12EE which is what Kyle recommended and Bob's your uncle.

That one piece of information... Red Wing #8 12D fits me tight with thin socks, is the key.

Now everyone's feet are different, and there are many people who know a lot more about this than I do, but to me this at least confirms that you are in the correct ballpark!

Good Luck.
A 2nd information point, Iron Rangers for me 13D (a bit snug in width). Whites 13EE (fit great). As suggested above, there is room for variation with personal preference but you can start to draw a conclusion what is at least likely for you.
My issue was yes, the iron rangers in a 12d fit for the most part, but I remember trying them on in a 13d and I felt like the ball of my foot lined up with the wide part of the boot perfectly, but my feet were swimming in them. There of course is no arch support in the iron rangers to worry about lining up properly with your feet, so I went with what seemed best at the time and got the 12d. I've literally never had a shoe that fit me correctly in my entire life. My current thorogood moc toes in a 13d with some sole thick insoles in them, are the closest I've come. Even those have some heal slip, but they're money around the ball of my foot and toes.
 

chicken1616

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Now that is interesting... when quoting Brannock shoe size, I always measure the heel to toe length and the arch length, and state that I am the larger of the two... so in your case I would not say I am a 13 on the Brannock, I would say I am a 14.5.

Now we are talking about going down not one size in length, but 2.5... that is where I might get nervous about the arch fitting the right place on the foot (from those measurements I take it you have a long arch and really short toes).

The overall length might work, but your arch might be in the wrong place... not a big deal in Chuck Taylors, but a really big deal in White's boots.

But again you told this to Kyle and sent tracings and he still put you in the 12EE (which seems wide now that you mention your Brannock width is a B)... but again, Kyle knows best.

I would say in light of the difference between you heel to toe and arch length size, and the instep adjustment, be sure to avail yourself of the try on pair and give Kyle lots of feedback.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a paid of boots or shoes on the Alden Trubalance last? What size, width, and how do they fit?
Yep. Foot is a13B on Brannock, arch is much longer. I have seen no repercussions from wearing a boot that is 1-2 sizes "too long". The arch is more important to me, anyway.
 

Legal Eagles

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I've literally never had a shoe that fit me correctly in my entire life.
Then you are in for a treat... if you take your time, communicate and insist on a perfect fit, not just "good enough" or "it will wear in", or "I'll just wear thick (or thin) socks."

You are spending a lot of money on these, they should be right.

How do you know the 55 last is the best last for your foot shape?

Have you considered waiting for a combination last?

Hopefully the try on pair will be perfect, but this is a situation where it is better to get it right than to get it fast.

Once you figure out your size and width on a particular last, life is good!
 

Sledge42

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Redwing Iron Ranger is on the Redwing #8 last... a famous last in the boot world, well known, and constant. If you know your fit in Red Wing #8, you have an invaluable piece of information for boot sizing even if you did not realize it.

My fit in the White's 55 last is the same length as on the Red #8, but one width wider. If 12D Iron rangers fit you with thin socks, then a 12E would likely fit you with regular socks, and if you add one width (like I do) you get 12EE which is what Kyle recommended and Bob's your uncle.
I, personally was a slight variant off the Red Wing #8 Last. I am a 12D on a Brannock. I wore an 11D in a Red Wing #8 last, but it wasn't wide enough in my toes. But an 11.5D made me feel like I was wearing rubber boots in a #8 last (Sloppy.)

With this info, on a 55 Last for White's I was sized at an 11.5E and they are perfect!
 

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