Cool furniture, design objects and desiderata

[Van Veen]

If it's not primarily intended to communicate, it's not "art" in the sense we're talking about. That's at the very least the floor.

The important point in the context of this thread is that presentation can alter the viewer's perception. The same Persian rug will be viewed differently hung on the wall vs. used as a carpet. There will always be an element of salesmanship in the art world. It reminds me of the article a few years back where Josh Bell played in a metro station. Most people didn't take a second look.

Finally I wonder where art-as-investment fits in this discussion. Is it tasteless to buy art simply for its financial value?

 

[double00]

^^ to be clear i use 'communicate' as in 2nd-, 3rd-hand communication about a work. not the direct link between work and viewer.

 

[TheFoo]

well it's entirely possible that insisting on an intellectual reading pre-empts visceral or ecstatic experience. those levels of understanding (and they do exist and even have value!) are no more or less sharp or refined than the lettered docent - but it is certainly harder to communicate since that reading really doesn't rely on reducing a physical object to text. (and i'd guess it is thus harder to impress one's guests... )

Who said anything about "reducing a physical object to text" or being a "lettered docent?" You are funneling my comments into needlessly narrow and extreme directions.

Taking time to learn about things such as art builds taste and appreciation. It also can alter your original visceral, emotional reactions to them. Haven't your feelings about a thing, experience, person, etc., ever changed after you gained more knowledge and understanding of them? Or do you always rely on first impressions? You judge books by their covers?

Come on, now. I'm not pressing a radical or contorted point of view. The push back on this is silly.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

Agree completely that art and craft are tied but not the same thing.

They can exists in the same fields. Furniture design is art, furniture making us craft.

 

[double00]

Who said anything about "reducing a physical object to text" or being a "lettered docent?" You are funneling my comments into needlessly narrow and extreme directions.

Taking time to learn about things such as art builds taste and appreciation. It also can alter your original visceral, emotional reactions to them. Haven't your feelings about a thing, experience, person, etc., ever changed after you gained more knowledge and understanding of them? Or do you always rely on first impressions? You judge books by their covers?

i'm funneling comments narrowly? harrumph! i'll have you know i'm a dedicated re-reader.

it's all good tho. to your point I'm pretty reasonable about withholding judgment. i don't think there's anything wrong with the approach you've outlined. but i think that just as our outlooks about particular works can evolve and deepen over time (through book-learnin' or osmosis) so can our views on these things in a broader sense. i believe that the actual content of art exists somewhere between the artist, the work, the viewer, and the world beyond - and that a little experimentation with how these things are viewed and digested offers opportunities for insight that may go overlooked if we simply adhere to some canonical reading.

 

[ethanm]

Look, I like Rothko but I don't care how much Nietszche or Jung the guy read to come to his colored rectangles they're still just colored rectangles. They look nice and would be great tshirts but the interpretation or how he arrived at rectangles is just too extra.

 

[otc]

Pretty sure the only right answer is to let Gordon Matta-Clark decorate your space

 

[Bounder]

No, I don't consider Persian rugs to be art. As beautiful and finely crafted as they can be, they are meant to be used and walked on. They serve a practical function. "Art," if the term is to mean anything, does not. That is hardly an idiosyncratic view.

The suggestion that real art has to be useless is a non-starter.

Architects can certainly be artists and have created some of the most thought-provoking and disruptive pieces throughout human history. Certainly, modern furniture designers consider themselves artists. Many of them will write toe-curling explanations of what they are doing and why they are doing it. Making a functional object beautiful/expressive is, arguably, the highest form of art. That this art then gets mass-produced is beside the point. There are a million postcards of The Mona Lisa.

As for Persian carpets, many of them are immensely expressive and, as I noted, many of the finest quality are often hung on walls. Does the fact that someone chose to put it on the wall instead of the floor turn it into art?

A "conversation piece" can be any peculiar or exceptional thing. It could be an old typewriter or a fancy car or a kitchen gadget. That is a low bar for qualification as art.

Do you somehow imagine that modern art has not featured all of these things? But I do not say that all conversation pieces are art. Rather, I prefer that all my art also be conversation pieces. My point was that art serves a different purpose for me than it does for you. In effect, you are treating it as a piece of the decor, albeit as the centerpiece. I want my art to be able to hold its own regardless of whether or not it matches my couch.

It doesn't matter to me if the art we hang starts any conversations. It improves my life by visually provoking thought. If others get some satisfaction out of it, great. But really, I couldn't care less.

Once again, we have different purposes. Most of my art is in spaces intended for interaction. Just as I arrange the furniture to stimulate conversation, I want the rest of the room to serve a similar purpose. In a space like a study, I arrange both the furniture and the art differently, but that's because it is intended to serve a different purpose. So if, say, your living room is primarily for you rather than guests -- I am very aware of all the issues with NY real estate -- then there is no reason you would want your art to stimulate conversation.

Ninety-nine percent of everything is crap. Not just modern art, but art in general. Also food, movies, architecture, books, etc. That's why it pays to learn and refine one's own taste--i.e. to take things seriously. Life is so much more enjoyable when you can distinguish than when you can't tell the difference.

Haha. With modern art, the only way you can distinguish "between the rare good and the common bad" is inside your own head. Intellectual "explanations" of modern art are almost universally cringe-inducing. Modern art either works on a visceral level or it doesn't.

Come on, now. I'm not pressing a radical or contorted point of view. The push back on this is silly.

Well, your diktat that everyone should re-decorate their living room every time they get a new Kinkade is a little out there.

Agree completely that art and craft are tied but not the same thing.

They can exists in the same fields. Furniture design is art, furniture making us craft.

Yes, this. Exactly. A beautiful sculpture is art. If it contains a cleverly-disguised bottle opener, it is still art.

It used to be that a great artist had to possess both the artistic vision and the skills to realize it, i.e., the had to be both artists and masters of their craft. One of the great watersheds in art history -- and, on balance, probably not for the better -- was when "art" became separate and distinct from "craft" so that just an "idea" could (theoretically) be art.

 

[ethanm]

It used to be that a great artist had to possess both the artistic vision and the skills to realize it, i.e., the had to be both artists and masters of their craft. One of the great watersheds in art history -- and, on balance, probably not for the better -- was when "art" became separate and distinct from "craft" so that just an "idea" could (theoretically) be art.

The old way is very nicely on display at the Picasso musuem in Barcelona which is arranged chronologically. He was a very good traditional painter at a very young age.

 

[LA Guy]

I want to turn off my email alerts for this forum. It's stuck now. If anyone knows so, please help me.

Read here: https://www.styleforum.net/threads/new-sf-user-interface-help-thread.541264/page-39#post-8886259

Cheers,

Fok.

 

[Mujib]

I think this is a strawman argument.

It was less a direct response to foo and more a response to a sentiment similar to the one behind his sarcasm, namely, that disliking modern art is ignorance.

It certainly is not required to appreciate art, but it can (and will) enhance the appreciation of art.

I think that's precisely where the disagreement is. First, the "defense" of certain art here and elsewhere is premised on the idea that it is required. In fact, the more modern the art, the more entangled it is in theory, and the more it and theory sort of feed off of each other. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but it doesn't necessarily make the art better art. Secondly, some would also disagree with you that "book-learning" will enhance the appreciation of art; in fact, they would say that it stands in the way.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

The fun of modern art is that it is open to the interpretation of the viewer. It is broken down to the quality of composition. Technical ability remains a large part of modern art but it does often mistake the viewer into believing otherwise.

Some modern and contemporary furniture works share that in common with visual art. I've seen many pieces of furniture which appear quite simple but are in fact technical masterworks. It is often more interesting to me than something that shows itself immediately as being technically difficult since it requires such dedicated restraint.

 

[sugarbutch]

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

That's pretty wild, some sort of photography while cutting veneers I assume?

Finished up my bench, I'll blog about it next week;

 

[Bounder]

That's pretty wild, some sort of photography while cutting veneers I assume?

Finished up my bench, I'll blog about it next week;

Dear God.

Is that a 4x4? Who -- or what -- is going to be sitting on this bench?

SG, you are developing an extremely distinct and recognizable visual style. I quite like it. Once we write you up some pseudo-intellectual blather about how your art is a visual representation of the will of marginalized peoples to resist the oppression of global warming or whatever, you will be quite collectible.