Cleveland Cavaliers' big trade

[Saucemaster]

Originally Posted by landho

I don't think LeBron will win a championship in the next five years.

I would have said that before this year's flurry of trades. Now, I'd just limit it to "LeBron won't win a championship with the Cavs".

 

[landho]

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

I would have said that before this year's flurry of trades. Now, I'd just limit it to "LeBron won't win a championship with the Cavs".

Yeah, you don't really want to make your predictions too broad because the future is so indeterminate, but you don't want to make your predictions too narrow because then you sound like an asshole.

 

[Saucemaster]

Originally Posted by landho

Yeah, you don't really want to make your predictions too broad because the future is so indeterminate, but you don't want to make your predictions too narrow because then you sound like an asshole.

LeBron James will not win a championship in the next fifteen minutes.

There, I said it.

 

[whacked]

^ Agree with landho that Baron overlook a few too many greats whose talents and influences when put in perspective of their respective eras are definitely comparable tp LeBron's.

I'd also like to add:

Originally Posted by Baron

LeBron can be a the lead ball handler

If you mean this as in LeBron can pass off as a PG, then the statement is pure mythology. The only time ever that LeBron manned the PG position was during his rookie year; needless to say the experience didn't pan out, save for some highlights here and there. He's been playing like a true 3 ever since.

If your intention is that LeBron operates well as a Point Forward, then I can name about a dozen of players around the league who do just as good of a job.

 

[Baron]

In recent memory, Tony Parker is a small point guard who led his team to a championship.

Yeah, he didn't lead those teams. Duncan did. He's not even the 2nd best player on his team. I think you're missing my point. Pippen is an all-time great, but he wouldn't have won a title as the best player on his team. He couldn't "lead" a team to a title, but he's a excellent complimentary player to someone that could.

Now, I won't get too deep into this discussion, but I will say that Karl Malone is arguably the best power forward of all time (but Tim Duncan probably gets the nod there) and is the archetypal "classic" power forward--he could shoot, pass, rebound, hold position down low, and was the consummate "dirty" man, albeit one who could score 27 points a night. Also, he never stopped developing his game. It's unfair to call him a choker; David Robinson would have retired with that label firmly branded on him had the Spurs not won the lottery in 1997. Malone led his team to back to back NBA finals, and the Jazz were not necessarily underdogs in those matchups (even though they were playing against the Jordan Bulls). Stockton is probably the best pure point guard of all time. Elgin Baylor made eight (!) Finals appearances without ever winning one, and his career numbers are "LeBronlike." Kobe, Duncan, Nash, and Dirk can't play forever, I guess; I don't think LeBron will win a championship in the next five years.

I call Malone a choker because he choked in big games when it mattered. You could see the fear on his face in crunch time in the finals. He was an awesome player, but some guys can't carry a team on their back. Robinson was the same way - he got destroyed by Hakeem in the Western Finals in his "MVP" year. I think Dirk is probably the same. Stockton was a great small PG, but those guys have to be really extraordinary to lead teams to the top (and most would say that Malone was the number 1 guy on that team). Isaiah was the only one, and maybe Chris Paul will be the second.

 

[landho]

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

LeBron James will not win a championship in the next fifteen minutes.

There, I said it.

What an asshole!

 

[Baron]

Originally Posted by whacked

^ Agree with landho that Baron overlook a few too many greats whose talents and influences when put in perspective of their respective eras are definitely comparable tp LeBron's.

I'd also like to add:



If you mean this as in LeBron can pass off as a PG, then the statement is pure mythology. The only time ever that LeBron manned the PG position was during his rookie year; needless to say the experience didn't pan out, save for some highlights here and there. He's been playing like a true 3 ever since.

If your intention is that LeBron operates well as a Point Forward, then I can name about a dozen of players around the league who do just as good of a job.

You're tripping. There aren't guys that failed to win titles in any era that compare easily to LeBron. If you mean that Baylor in his absolute prime compares to LeBron as a 21 or 22 year old, then maybe, but Baylor was still in college when he was LeBron's age.

And while there are other guys that can play point forward in the NBA, LeBron is the most effective of the bunch even when looking narrowly at that skill, but none of them bring all of his other talents to the table.

All this said, I'm a Laker fan and I could give a **** if he ever wins a ring, but I can see the writing on the wall.

 

[Saucemaster]

Originally Posted by Baron

All this said, I'm a Laker fan and I could give a **** if he ever wins a ring, but I can see the writing on the wall.

Dude, we're going to resign Kwame once Memphis cuts him, then package him with DJ Mbenga and trade them to Cleveland for LeBron straight up. We might throw in a second-round pick. It's gonna be awesome.

 

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

Dude, we're going to resign Kwame once Memphis cuts him, then package him with DJ Mbenga and trade them to Cleveland for LeBron straight up. We might throw in a second-round pick. It's gonna be awesome.

Kupchak's on a roll, dude! He might pull it off.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

Dude, we're going to resign Kwame once Memphis cuts him, then package him with DJ Mbenga and trade them to Cleveland for LeBron straight up. We might throw in a second-round pick. It's gonna be awesome.
I would love to see that. I put the over-under on "LeBron chokes Kobe in practice" at 10 games.

 

[landho]

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

Dude, we're going to resign Kwame once Memphis cuts him, then package him with DJ Mbenga and trade them to Cleveland for LeBron straight up. We might throw in a second-round pick. It's gonna be awesome.

Chris Mihm's not going to play forever. Who's going to play backup center in this dreamworld of yours, egghead?

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by whacked

If your intention is that LeBron operates well as a Point Forward, then I can name about a dozen of players around the league who do just as good of a job.

Please name even six that are as good point forward as Lebron. Or name the last forward to average 7 assists at all.

Originally Posted by Baron

Yeah, he didn't lead those teams. Duncan did. He's not even the 2nd best player on his team. I think you're missing my point. Pippen is an all-time great, but he wouldn't have won a title as the best player on his team. He couldn't "lead" a team to a title, but he's a excellent complimentary player to someone that could.

Assuming he would've developed the same way without Jordan and had a good (Shawn-Kempish) big man to help him, I think he could've won a title. Assuming he wouldn't have had to go through Jordan in his prime to get there. He was pretty good and the team was pretty good that year Jordan was out of the league.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser

I would love to see that. I put the over-under on "LeBron chokes Kobe in practice" at 10 games.

I think Lebron would suffer a lot playing next to Kobe, it would really throw him off his game. Kobe is the one player that I think Lebron even slightly intimidated by/in awe of, or at least he was at one point.

Originally Posted by landho

Chris Mihm's not going to play forever. Who's going to play backup center in this dreamworld of yours, egghead?

Kareem comes out of retirement, duh.

 

[landho]

Originally Posted by Brian278

Please name even six that are as good point forward as Lebron. Or name the last forward to average 7 assists at all.

A bit unfair, as LeBron's high assist numbers are inflated by the Cavs' point guards all being dogshit. Which is not to say that LeBron isn't a good playmaker, because he is.

Assuming he would've developed the same way without Jordan and had a good (Shawn-Kempish) big man to help him, I think he could've won a title. Assuming he wouldn't have had to go through Jordan in his prime to get there. He was pretty good and the team was pretty good that year Jordan was out of the league.

Yeah, Pippen was awesome.

 

[landho]

Originally Posted by Brian278

Kareem comes out of retirement, duh.

This is the dream version of my life.