Black Dress shirts, when and how?

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Holdfast

Aesthetically, I've no beef with black shirts in certain contexts - nights out being probably the most obvious example, though I personally tend to reach for a white shirt instead. The problem I have with them is that while they look fantastic the first time they're worn, and pretty good on the second and maybe third time, after that the fade becomes noticeable. They depend on being a really deeply saturated pristinely solid black for their aesthetic appeal. I wash my shirts at cool temperatures and still, black shirts fade very quickly. That's the reason I don't wear them myself - to me black cotton shirts are almost disposable items and I can't justify the cost to myself. It's almost worth getting one in silk, because at least then I can mentally justify dry-cleaning them after wear and so preserve the blackness. Does anyone else have a solution?
It is part of the problem with black cotton; it is worse with linen. the color issue isnt as bad as it was a few years ago when black shirts were worn under black jackets. The black wool would make any black cotton shirt that wasnt "midnight black" look faded. Other factors and qualities aside, yarn dyed cotton works better for keeping a black shirt black than does piece dying. I would imagine most shirts are from piece dyed cotton. Silk is an option but it will also fade. I have used a black crepe de chine from a surprising source which is light, relatively airy and has a texture that takes your eye off the fading but even that will eventually fade too much. it occurs to me that part of the allure of black shirts is indeed that you have to have some wealth to maintain or keep replacing them just like white shirts have supposedly always suggested that you had to have means to keep em clean. Maybe black is the new white?

 

[Holdfast]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Silk is an option but it will also fade. I have used a black crepe de chine from a surprising source which is light, relatively airy and has a texture that takes your eye off the fading but even that will eventually fade too much.

Nice idea. You're right that it too will eventually fade, but I guess my point is that the greater number of lifetime wearings makes the initial cost of a silk worth it. To my crude mental amoritization calculation, at least.

it occurs to me that part of the allure of black shirts is indeed that you have to have some wealth to maintain or keep replacing them just like white shirts have supposedly always suggested that you had to have means to keep em clean.

Cute thought. I suspect it's more prosaic though - black and white both work very well under low lighting and so will always be favoured for wearing in the evening. Also, both colours are minimalist and generally slimming. A slight corollary is that the more minimalist a fabric, the more dependent one is upon superb fit to achieve the desired effect. In that sense, I suppose it is wealth/cost dependent since good fit is rare in RTW.

Look at the Yohji outfit posted earlier - the deliberately off-kilter shape of the garment is part of the aesthetic appeal and that design speaks more clearly because the fabric & its colour is so apparently simple.

 

[Fade to Black]

it ain't yohji man, i know it looks like it but it's phat farm by russell simmons. that was the precursor to my modern day YY look tho

and yeah an annoying thing about black shirts is the way they dont fade well...im very hesitant to buy an expensive black shirt nowadays cuz i already had a few that died on me.

i once read an al pacino biography and in one paragraph he was described as wearing an all black outfit that was all silk - jacket shirt trousers - to an interview. im picturing ******* al pacino do that and it sounds cool - so cool that ever since then i sometimes fantasize about wearing a similar outfit.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Holdfast

Nice idea. You're right that it too will eventually fade, but I guess my point is that the greater number of lifetime wearings makes the initial cost of a silk worth it. To my crude mental amoritization calculation, at least.

I have a yarn dyed cotton shirt in black which is still black and several piece dyed black cotton shirts which look unacceptably faded. Maybe now that the custom grade shirt makers are turning their heads to black shirts, the process wil improve. A black custom shirt used to be rarer than now even if there were lots of photos of them from designers.

Originally Posted by holdfast

]Cute thought. I suspect it's more prosaic though - black and white both work very well under low lighting and so will always be favoured for wearing in the evening. Also, both colours are minimalist and generally slimming. A slight corollary is that the more minimalist a fabric, the more dependent one is upon superb fit to achieve the desired effect. In that sense, I suppose it is wealth/cost dependent since good fit is rare in RTW.
Why doesnt this BB software support more than one prior poster's quote? As much as people have a problem with black, notice how navy really isnt on the table, in spite of its darkness, it lacks status and would be considered wrong. Anyway. I think there is also and old word vs new mentality. White is more office and black is almost never so.

Originally Posted by holdfast

Look at the Yohji outfit posted earlier - the deliberately off-kilter shape of the garment is part of the aesthetic appeal and that design speaks more clearly because the fabric & its colour is so apparently simple.
if that's the one with the girls then I approve. I dont think there would be a lot of aoccasions to wear a tie with a black shirt. I think i would wear it open necked. It is a hard look to pull off properly but it is effective when it is done well. I also dont believe you should wear a black shirt with the standard materials used for the office. I understand that people sometimes have limited choices but i dont like wearing the same charcoal or navy suit with a black shirt. I like a little mohair or silk to the jacket, even color; dont mind more interesting fabric textures either. That golden/brown color (hard to describe) is perfect for a jacket worn with a black shirt. one thing I notice is that there seems to be a worry about black shirts from some that borders on the threatening. I think part of the problem touched on above is that this is a look which has to be carried off especially right and everyone always thinks of the people that do the look wrong. I think the look can look slick but that shouldnt be a tool in the hands of people who know they arent hip.

 

[Holdfast]

Originally Posted by Fade to Black

it ain't yohji man, i know it looks like it but it's phat farm by russell simmons. that was the precursor to my modern day YY look tho

I meant the actual pic of Yohji in an earlier post (that is Yohji, isn't it - he has more grey hair than I remember from other photos?), though your outfit does illustrate the same point and I admit I would have assumed it was YY too.

i once read an al pacino biography and in one paragraph he was described as wearing an all black outfit that was all silk - jacket shirt trousers - to an interview. im picturing ******* al pacino do that and it sounds cool - so cool that ever since then i sometimes fantasize about wearing a similar outfit.

It's interesting what sticks in the mind as sartorial ideals. I have a similar idee fixe about a very light grey, closely-tailored silk DB and white relatively high-collared open necked shirt...

I'd try the pacino outfit too, though.

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

As much as people have a problem with black, notice how navy really isnt on the table, in spite of its darkness, it lacks status and would be considered wrong.

Status... hmm, I think impact is the better word. Black and white are bolder colours. Navy suits in the evening aren't about impact, they're about discretion. That has its place - a quiet meal out with friends perhaps - but it's not the same one as black/white.

I dont think there would be a lot of aoccasions to wear a tie with a black shirt. I think i would wear it open necked.

I agree on this. It's much harder to combine a black shirt with a tie and still look good. There are a few examples in this thread of people just about managing to pull it off, but it's very very hard. Open collar is easier.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Holdfast

Status... hmm, I think impact is the better word. Black and white are bolder colours. Navy suits in the evening aren't about impact, they're about discretion. That has its place - a quiet meal out with friends perhaps - but it's not the same one as black/white.
Just to be clear, I was talking about navy cotton shirts. it seems navy cotton is considered naff by both black shirt hatas and wearers. I could see a medium grey SB silk suit with a black shirt. I have a piece of dove grey (silvery) dupioni silk for a sports jacket that would really only get use at night with something like a black shirt. That's hip.

 

[aportnoy]

^^

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