300 Trailer is up!

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by odoreater

Hey skal, I heard on the radio today that 300 set a box office record in Greece. Have you heard that?

No but I would not be expecially surprised, often bad films do well over there, as much as I hate to admit it

I can see if I can find any concrete nmumbers, I have not even seen mention of the film on any major newspapers other than various critics primarily talking about the racial/racism aspects of West versus East and white against non-white...
Basically, what Saucemaster mentioned. The Persian army of the time was basically made up of troops of all occupied territories, including certain Ionian Greeks & Greek mercenaries.

 

[skalogre]

P.s. did anyone catch the irony in the statemnts of the critics and fans of the film in regards to the whole "Spartans fighting for democracy and freedom"?
I mean, come on. "This is Sparti!"

If ever there was strong opposition to democracy and equality, the Lacedaimonians were frontrunners just by the sheer level distrust and hatred they had for such institutions...

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by skalogre

various critics primarily talking about the racial/racism aspects of West versus East and white against non-white...
Basically, what Saucemaster mentioned. The Persian army of the time was basically made up of troops of all occupied territories, including certain Ionian Greeks & Greek mercenaries.


but there was also a huge element of race/culture in this battle, you have to admit. to the greeks, the persians were asiatic (and barbarians would not be quite the right word, but something that isn't quite human may be). a lot of the greek culture was based on diferentiation from asians, even though, as you rightly mentioned, many ethnic greeks lived in the persian empire, and served the persian crown.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

but there was also a huge element of race/culture in this battle, you have to admit. to the greeks, the persians were asiatic (and barbarians would not be quite the right word, but something that isn't quite human may be). a lot of the greek culture was based on diferentiation from asians, even though, as you rightly mentioned, many ethnic greeks lived in the persian empire, and served the persian crown.

H,, I see what you are getting at. In many ways it can be viewed rather differently; the Persian empire wanted to get a foothold in Europe. For whatever confluence of events the city states stopped their infighting long enough and were able to to deny them the main entrypoint in to Europe and the western Mediterrannean region. History could have been rather different if that had happenned. There would be a good probability that the lingua franca of the region and a lot of Europe would have been derived from the tongues spoken in the Persian court

 

[JLibourel]

As some of you may know, I have a Ph.D. in ancient history, although I have not pursued my studies in that field seriously for many years. Because of the hoopla over the movie, I did re-read Book VII of Herodotus in the original together with the old How and Wells commentary.

I had thought it might be fun to see to movie just for laughs, but after I quickly read the Frank Miller comic bo-, er "graphic novel" in my local B&N (damned if I'll pay $30 for a comic book I can read in a few minutes!), I decided not to. The whole thing just seem too offensive to my historical sensibilities.

Just a few points: Neither the Spartans nor any other Greek hoplites wore black leather shorts in battle. They wore brazen breast plates, greaves, thigh guards and kilts in battle! Having them fight virtually naked, while it might be eye-candy for the gay set, makes the battle ridiculous. The main reason the Spartans (and the other Greeks) were able to hold the pass was because they were more heavily armored than the Persians. The superiority of Greek heavy infantry over the Persians was a recurring theme in the period, as at the Battle of Cunaxa, when Cyrus' Greek mercenaries routed the Persians before them. The longer, heavier spears of the Spartans also played a major role in their successes as Thermopylae, as Herodotus notes.

A minor dramatic touch they missed was that the Spartans' shields were painted white with a black lamba on it. When the Spartans were in formation it created a striking zigzag pattern the sight of which doubtless struck terror into their adversaries.

Having the Persians played by black men is historically ridiculous (although there were black-skinned men in the Persian army--contingents from Africa and Indian Dravidians). Moreover, having them portrayed as grotesque, hideous black men with all manner facial piercings and such is generally offensive, period--very reminiscent of the old-time "ooga-booga" black savages from the movies of 75 years ago. Some Persian friends of mine are absolutely outraged over this movie. In point of fact, the Persians of Xerxes' time were probably a good deal "whiter" than the modern Iranians, their Aryan blood not having been mixed with that of subsequent darker invaders--Arabs, Turks, Mongols, Tatars, etc. In fact, one of the Iranian tribal contingents accompanying Xerxes was simply styled the "Aryans" ("Arioi" in Herodotus).

Judging from the Frank Miller comic, there was much else inaccurate in bunk-filled about the movie (assuming they followed the comic book closely, as I believe they did, e.g. the portrayal of Ephialtes as some sort of deformed, monstrous reject from Sparta.

I never heard of war-rhinos before. War elephants, of course. I don't think the Persian army was accompanied by anything more exotic than camels, however.

On Friday, I had lunch with my friend Richard Venola. He told me he had walked out of the movie. He characterized in as "gay slasher Appreciation." Richard is the last guy you'd think of as a *****--a brawny, hulking longtime career Marine and the newly appointed editor of Guns & Ammo magazine.

 

[skalogre]

Sidenote: I wonder if war camels could have been trained to spit in the eyes of the enemy

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

As some of you may know, I have a Ph.D. in ancient history, although I have not pursued my studies in that field seriously for many years. Because of the hoopla over the movie, I did re-read Book VII of Herodotus in the original together with the old How and Wells commentary.

I had thought it might be fun to see to movie just for laughs, but after I quickly read the Frank Miller comic bo-, er "graphic novel" in my local B&N (damned if I'll pay $30 for a comic book I can read in a few minutes!), I decided not to. The whole thing just seem too offensive to my historical sensibilities.

Just a few points: Neither the Spartans nor any other Greek hoplites wore black leather shorts in battle. They wore brazen breast plates, greaves, thigh guards and kilts in battle! Having them fight virtually naked, while it might be eye-candy for the gay set, makes the battle ridiculous. The main reason the Spartans (and the other Greeks) were able to hold the pass was because they were more heavily armored than the Persians. The superiority of Greek heavy infantry over the Persians was a recurring theme in the period, as at the Battle of Cunaxa, when Cyrus' Greek mercenaries routed the Persians before them. The longer, heavier spears of the Spartans also played a major role in their successes as Thermopylae, as Herodotus notes.

A minor dramatic touch they missed was that the Spartans' shields were painted white with a black lamba on it. When the Spartans were in formation it created a striking zigzag pattern the sight of which doubtless struck terror into their adversaries.

Having the Persians played by black men is historically ridiculous (although there were black-skinned men in the Persian army--contingents from Africa and Indian Dravidians). Moreover, having them portrayed as grotesque, hideous black men with all manner facial piercings and such is generally offensive, period--very reminiscent of the old-time "ooga-booga" black savages from the movies of 75 years ago. Some Persian friends of mine are absolutely outraged over this movie. In point of fact, the Persians of Xerxes' time were probably a good deal "whiter" than the modern Iranians, their Aryan blood not having been mixed with that of subsequent darker invaders--Arabs, Turks, Mongols, Tatars, etc. In fact, one of the Iranian tribal contingents accompanying Xerxes was simply styled the "Aryans" ("Arioi" in Herodotus).

Judging from the Frank Miller comic, there was much else inaccurate in bunk-filled about the movie (assuming they followed the comic book closely, as I believe they did, e.g. the portrayal of Ephialtes as some sort of deformed, monstrous reject from Sparta.

I never heard of war-rhinos before. War elephants, of course. I don't think the Persian army was accompanied by anything more exotic than camels, however.

On Friday, I had lunch with my friend Richard Venola. He told me he had walked out of the movie. He characterized in as "gay slasher Appreciation." Richard is the last guy you'd think of as a *****--a brawny, hulking longtime career Marine and the newly appointed editor of Guns & Ammo magazine.

"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

As some of you may know, I have a Ph.D. in ancient history, although I have not pursued my studies in that field seriously for many years. Because of the hoopla over the movie, I did re-read Book VII of Herodotus in the original together with the old How and Wells commentary. . .
If this was your starting point, there was no chance you would like the movie. 300 is a superhero story in the costume drama category. It has as much to do with Ancient Greece as the X-Men movies do with the history of Westchester County. (Not that it matters, but the shields in 300 did have Lambdas on them.) Here is a good way to gauge whether or not you will like 300. If the following review has any appeal to you, you will enjoy the movie.

I just saw a movie that’ll give your eyes boners, make your balls scream and make you poop DVD copies of THE TRANSPORTER. It’s called 300. I don’t know what the title has to do with the movie, but they could’ve called it KITTENS MAKING CANDLES and it’d still rule. It’s about these 300 Greek dudes who stomp the sugar-coated **** out of like a million other dudes. I have a feeling that a lot of high school sports coaches are going to show this film to their teams before they play. Also, gay dudes and divorced women are going to use screen captures for computer wallpaper. The movie takes place about a million years ago, and it’s sort of like a prequel to SIN CITY. Except way less guns and cars but twice as much skull splitting. If you watch this movie and go into a Taco Bell, and say to the cashier, “I need some extra sauce packets” guess what? You’re getting twenty sauce packets because your face will punch him in the brain. I can’t spoil the plot because THANK GOD THERE ISN’T ONE. Just ass kicking that kicks ass that, while said ass is getting kicked, is kicking yet more ass that’s hitting someone’s balls with a hammer made of ice but the ice is frozen whiskey. TWO COOL THINGS ABOUT THE MOVIE AND ONE THING I DIDN’T LIKE: COOL THING ONE: HEAVY METAL DURING BATTLE SCENES Who gives a **** if the music isn’t historically correct? LORD OF THE RINGS could’ve used some Journey. This movie has that chu-CHUNG kind of metal that you hear in your head when your shift supervisor at Wetzel’s Pretzel is telling you that you’ll have to stay for clean up and you wish you had a sock filled with quarters in your hand. COOL THING TWO: FOES, MINI-BOSSES AND A BIG BOSS Basically, the Greek dudes are fighting these Persian dudes, but the director, who must have a dick made of three machine guns, does it all like a video game. The Greeks fight every death metal video from the last ten years. There’s wave after wave of giants, freaks, ninjas, mutants, wizards, and a hunchback who looks like he’s got Rosie O’Donnell on his back. Would I have been happy if Dom DeLuise from HISTORY OF THE WORLD, PART I had shown up? Maybe, but this movie more than makes up for that glaring oversight. NOT SO GOOD THING: DUDE NUDITY (“DUDE-ITY”) These are Greek times, when there were a lot of naked women around. And there are some naked women in this film, but almost every naked woman scene has a muscular dude giving the screen an ass picnic. Dude-ity is something directors put in their movies so people will think they’re serious, I guess, and not just throwing in naked hotties. Any directors reading this – IT’S OKAY TO JUST THROW IN NAKED HOTTIES. Can’t someone make a movie about naked Amazons and call it PAUSE BUTTON? My final analysis is 300 the most ass-ruling movie I’ve seen this year, and will probably be the King of 2007 unless someone makes a movie where a pair of sentient boobs fights a werewolf.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by dopey

If this was your starting point, there was no chance you would like the movie. 300 is a superhero story in the costume drama category. It has as much to do with Ancient Greece as the X-Men movies do with the history of Westchester County.
(Not that it matters, but the shields in 300 did have Lambdas on them.)

Here is a good way to gauge whether or not you will like 300. If the following review has any appeal to you, you will enjoy the movie.

LOL. "I don't know what the title [300] has to do with the movie . . . It's about these 300 Greek dudes." Hmm, that's a stumper.
Plus, I think I have my new signature:
"Can’t someone make a movie about naked Amazons and call it PAUSE BUTTON?" Although the "ass picnic" comment gives this one a run for its money.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

LOL. "I don't know what the title [300] has to do with the movie . . . It's about these 300 Greek dudes." Hmm, that's a stumper.
Plus, I think I have my new signature:
"Can't someone make a movie about naked Amazons and call it PAUSE BUTTON?" Although the "ass picnic comment" gives this one a run for its money.

 

[javyn]

I didn't like it. And not because of the content...I think it's hilarious that it offended so many people. I disliked 300 because it was a pretty crappy movie. So was Sin City. I don't get the people who get boners over its "ooooh cinematography", it looks like something any 13 year old kid can shoot. And computer generated gore = always lame. I swear, get some bloodbags for the actors to wear, it will make the movie 100x better!

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by javyn

I didn't like it. And not because of the content...I think it's hilarious that it offended so many people. I disliked 300 because it was a pretty crappy movie. So was Sin City. I don't get the people who get boners over its "ooooh cinematography", it looks like something any 13 year old kid can shoot. And computer generated gore = always lame. I swear, get some bloodbags for the actors to wear, it will make the movie 100x better!

Bloodbags are good. Kitano's Zatoichi (IIRC) was similar in that people complained about teh CGI blood...

 

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by skalogre

If ever there was strong opposition to democracy and equality, the Lacedaimonians were frontrunners just by the sheer level distrust and hatred they had for such institutions...

It's a little more complicated than that. The Greeks claimed at the time to be fighting for a common love for freedom and the rule of law, as opposed to absolutism and tyranny, which they attributed to Persia. Not for "democracy" per se, but at least against tyranny (it became customary later on in Greece to distinguish at least three classes of regimes, tyranny, oligarchy and democracy, the latter two sponsored respectively by Sparta and Athens).

The Spartans were particularly adamant in their utmost respect for the laws and for equality. Of course, nowadays people point out petty facts like the fact that much of "Spartan law" was unwritten custom which gave the ephors enormous powers of interpretation, or the fact that their "equality" was the equality of a few thousands full-fledged citizens oppressing tens of thousands of underlings in various classes. Still, that is what they claimed and I am convinced they were sincere in much of that propaganda.

 

[JLibourel]

Well said, Etienne. I don't know if the movie features the exiled Spartan king Demaretus who accompanied Xerxes' army into Greece and who functions as a sort of tragic chorus in Herodotus.

There is a great passage in H. where Xerxes holds a muster of his vast army and asks Demaretus if he thinks the vastly outnumbered Greeks will fight against this overwhelming force. Demaretus asks Xerxes if he wants a flattering answer or an honest one. An honest one, Xerxes replies. Demaretus says, "Poverty is always the nurse of Greece, and we ward off poverty by cultivating excellence and strong law." He goes on to state that even if the rest of Greece surrenders, the Spartans will stand and fight. Xerxes asks him how many fighting men there are in Sparta. Demaretus answers that the Spartans can raise 5,000 men max and the rest of Laconia about the same number for a total of 10,000. Xerxes answers to the effect that resistance would be ridiculous. No man can fight single-handed against against 20 or even 10 men alone. His army outnumbered the the Spartans by a incomparably greater ratio than that, and he had men in his bodyguard who would like to fight three Greeks at once. Demaretus replies that the Spartans will fight even if they only have a hundred men left. "Individually, they inferior to no other men, and fighting together they are better than any. For although they are free, they are not entirely free, for they have a master that they fear even more than their subjects fear you, and that is the law, and the Law of Sparta always enjoins the same thing: to conquer on the field of battle or perish. And although I would not wish to fight three men at once nor two nor even to egage in single combat, if it were necessary, I would gladly fight one of those men who claims to be able to fight three Greeks at once. May things transpire according to thy will, O King." (I am quoting roughly from memory here. My apology for any inaccuracies.)

 

[Valgar]

Originally Posted by javyn

It looks like something any 13 year old kid can shoot. And computer generated gore = always lame. I swear, get some bloodbags for the actors to wear, it will make the movie 100x better!

You could freeze most of the scenes in this movie and it would be a work of art compositionally (of course they were trying to follow the graphic novel). No 13 year old kid could hope to ever achieve that, and nor can most movies.

This movie is eye candy, and I ******* loved it.