WAYWRN: Classic Menswear, Casual Style

[fritzl]



Do you really think that there is little knowledge about "classic" casual clothes on SW&D?

yes...

Moreover, with the lack of exposure to younger brands, you're just simply missing out if you choose to post exclusively in MC.
As nice as a Barbour and LVC 1947 can look, it would be a shame not to also be exposed to 45rpm, Wings + Horns, Spurr etc etc etc.

not serious?

 

[fritzl]



Fritzl I concede that you could learn nothing useful from SWD

high five, you're my man.

apropos, glad you kept di matteo and you prevented the super gau.

 

[F. Corbera]

What I am trying to say is that bad fit decisions in MC casual will not be fixed by brand replacement from SW&D.

I agree if MC posters could emulate the best dressers in SW&D, they would look as good in SW&D clothes as do the best SW&D dressers. I agree with this because it is a tautology.

If the typical standard of wearing clothes were better in SW&D than in MC, then one could argue that osmotic exposure could yield a net improvement in MC.

But it is not.

 

[SirGrotius]



Cross post. Today.

I really like this look. The shirt is classic southern prep, and the blazer looks really nice. What's the make?

Fit everywhere looks spot on, although the pants seem to have a touch too much fabric for my tastes.

 

[hendrix]



What I am trying to say is that bad fit decisions in MC casual will not be fixed by brand replacement from SW&D.
I agree if MC posters could emulate the best dressers in SW&D, they would look as good in SW&D clothes as do the best SW&D dressers. I agree with this because it is a tautology.
If the typical standard of wearing clothes were better in SW&D than in MC, then one could argue that osmotic exposure could yield a net improvement in MC.
But it is not.

In that case we're talking about different things, because I come to the forums primarily for exposure and inspiration, along with a little bit of fit critique. I suppose this is a different goal than just coming to be taught how to dress better.

Thus for me it's not about which standard is better (hey, I don't have to choose anyway), just that I get alot more inspiration for casual clothing in SW&D than I do in this thread.

 

[P. Bateman]



Only a small segment of the activity in SW&D can be "useful" or illuminating for guys who are primarily or entirely active in MC.

Spoiler

This is because most of the stuff discussed in SW&D is not a casual aesthetic that fits in with wearing coat and tie: most of the stuff in SW&D represents a replacement aesthetic.
There is no "formal" or "casual" in SW&D, by and large. It's the same stuff top to bottom, day in day out, morning, noon and evening. Jeans to work. Jeans to a casual sports bar. Balmain by day. Balmain by night. There are many different types of it, and many different designers and retailers, true. The concepts might range from low brow to high, but there really isn't a forum-common "off duty" concept for SW&D as there is neither a forum-common "formal" concept.
In contrast, there is a common "formal" concept (such as it is) in MC: that is suit, shirt, necktie and leather shoes. The way that this common concept plays out in the contemporary world implies a lot of the day and week might be spent in other clothes; thus, "casual" clothes.
So, I don't view SW&D's favorite topics as "casual" clothes, but a minority selection...a tip of intellectualized or designer-y clothes atop a larger iceberg...of a casual world wearing cheap, floppy, slobby clothes. This casual world ever encroaches on and displaces the world of formality that still endures in the habit of wearing coat and tie, in dressing for occasion and place.
This is why it is very hard to fit the two together. The few guys on SF who wear things from both types of makers tend to abandon the other when they're doing one. gdl203 has mentioned that if he could, he would stop wearing coat and tie entirely and that American traditional casual dressing depresses him. He also mentioned that Parker is almost exclusively active now in SW&D. Neither seems like a method to bridge any gaps; it just seems like an attitude that says everyone should dress in SW&D types of things, and coat and tie only if they must because of external forces.
Switch one light on. Switch the other light off.
And then there's fuuma, of course. He's made some ridiculous and amusing statements in the last few pages that come from a very narrow place. That narrow place is a type of good taste that will have zero utility for the guy who loves...not likes, not must, not forced...but who loves to dress in coat and tie and can do so in the ever-diminishing world in which others do so as well.
That's really it, I think. There is a lot of uncomfortable evidence in this thread and in the main WAYWRN that a lot of the posters are actually from the casual world that dominates the present, and are new to the habit of wearing any type of classic clothes, whether "formal" or "casual."
This is the point, usually, when someone will say, "At least they'll find out about nicer jeans."
Yes, that's true. Big deal.
When something fails in this thread, it is not from lack of knowledge of what people like in SW&D. There would almost certainly be equal levels of failure if that knowledge was acquired.
After all, dudes in SW&D fail right and left no differently than in MC.

Very well put.

 

[sugarbutch]

Does anyone from MC other than acecow go over to SW&D and proselytize like this? I'm just not sure from what awful fate the SW&D guys are trying to save us.

 

[F. Corbera]

Some people post on SF with zero intention to change how they dress.

Others lurk or post on SF with an intent to change something. We can call this exposure and inspiration. Seeing and learning, but also applying.

Does a man typically seek to make a change for the worse? Yes, that is often the compulsion in life, but in this tiny, virtual segment, is that true?

No. Those making changes here either are, or think that they, are making changes for the better.

So: you and I are saying about the same thing, I am simply pointing out that the cause of what looks bad on MC casual is not lack of knowledge of SW&D. The same cause makes things look bad in the SW&D corner of SF.

 

[gdl203]



Does anyone from MC other than acecow go over to SW&D and proselytize like this? I'm just not sure from what awful fate the SW&D guys are trying to save us.

Yes, MCers try to dispense MC wisdom in SWD when the conversation turns to suits, dress shoes, etc... Often, as is the case here, with little receptivity, but sometimes the advice does get through to those with a more open mind.

It's sad that either group tends to think of itself as separate or opposite to the other. It just doesn't make sense IMO, there's some inspiration and lessons to be learned on both sections. I don't quite understand why people get all riled up here every single time someone suggests taking a look at SW&D for additional inspiration. I mean, this is the casual style thread, right?

 

[HansderHund]

^ First world problems.

 

[gdl203]



^ First world problems.

This is styleforum in case you had not noticed. A place entirely devoted to 1st world problems.

 

[HansderHund]



This is styleforum in case you had not noticed. A place entirely devoted to 1st world problems.

I prefer to bother myself with first world problems, it distracts me from real problems. I lost a mother of pearl button off of my sleeve on a RLPL shirt today. I didn't actually lose it, I found it in front of me at my desk. It's still sitting in my desk drawer. It bothered me for about 45 minutes. No joke.

 

[sugarbutch]

Does anyone from MC other than acecow go over to SW&D and proselytize like this? I'm just not sure from what awful fate the SW&D guys are trying to save us.

Yes, MCers try to dispense MC wisdom in SWD when the conversation turns to suits, dress shoes, etc... Often, as is the case here, with little receptivity, but sometimes the advice does get through to those with a more open mind.

Okay. I subscribed to the thread for a bit more than a month, and it seemed like he was the only one. In any case, I'm not hatin' on SW&D. I enjoyed some stuff I saw there, but ultimately concluded that the "center" of SW&D is too far away from my center. For instance, that guy in Africa (ivwri?) who wears Yohji Yamamoto looks great most of the time. No applicability to my aesthetic. Also, I can't shake the impression that most posters there wear clothing appropriate for kids/young men. Not all, mind, just most. And I am neither of those things.

I did, however, come to agree that my jeans could benefit from being a bit slimmer. I'll keep that in mind next year when I make my next annual denim purchase.

 

[hendrix]



So: you and I are saying about the same thing, I am simply pointing out that the cause of what looks bad on MC casual is not lack of knowledge of SW&D. The same cause makes things look bad in the SW&D corner of SF.

I suppose you're right about this.

Some people post on SF with zero intention to change how they dress.
Others lurk or post on SF with an intent to change something. We can call this exposure and inspiration. Seeing and learning, but also applying.
Does a man typically seek to make a change for the worse? Yes, that is often the compulsion in life, but in this tiny, virtual segment, is that true?
No. Those making changes here either are, or think that they, are making changes for the better.

Well, I would imagine at some point that it becomes about more than just making a change to look better, which is subjective. Some just want to make a change for their own personal interest and enjoyment.

 

[F. Corbera]

gdl, how does an MC habitué who fails in this thread pick what looks good on SW&D? He couldn't pick what looks good from the MC shelf...why would he do better looking at the SW&D shelf?

Shock and awe?

If his basic inclination is dressing casually in a more, well, classic way, but is struggling, what magic gives him a better eye for SW&D?

My feeling such a guy might be more successful if this thread had more casual fits from guys who dress well.