Used Audi - Good Investment ?

[Augusto86]

Are used cars ever a good bargain? My feeling and experience(albeit limited to 1 model) is that they are simply always going to be more trouble than they are worth unless you are buying something totally un-reproducible, like a classic Skyline or so forth. Which is more about taste than practicality.

 

[maxnharry]

I drive a 1996 Lexus LX-450 (rebadged toyota landcruiser) that I bought with 85,000 on the clock. It now has 125,000. I have never had a serious mechanical issue, ever.

Used cars are similar in many ways to the used clothing market. Some people just want something new and are concerned about inheriting someone else's problems. If you are not one of those people and do your homework well (and I don't discount luck), you can find excellent used cars that will last a very long time. I have a hard time with the 45% reduction in value that new cars take in the first two years of being on the road and am not bothered by driving a car someone else drove. YMMV

 

[alflauren]

+1 on your Lexus story. An old acquaintance of mine sells them, and has told me that they can never keep the ones with 100k+ miles on the used lot. People know they'll go to 200k if you take good care of them, so the reduced prices on the high mileage vehicles are often worth it.

On the Audi, I seriously looked at a used A6 a few months ago. I needed a nice grocery getter that would occasionally make a long trip. I decided that the reliability issues weren't worth it. The A6 has some problem with the drains at the bottom of the windshield; if they get plugged, as can happen at a more-than-tolerable rate, the water goes into the engine. That's just one of the many issues I found.

If I were to get an Audi, it would be new - or at least covered by warranty.

 

[johnapril]

1996 Nissan 200SX SER purchased with 28K miles in 1998.

By 2007, this car has 110K miles. No major repairs.

 

[zjpj83]

I think Subarus are the best AWD value. I've had four. Current Outback has 115,000 miles, WRX has 50,000 miles.

 

[LSeca]

Originally Posted by zjpj83

I think Subarus are the best AWD value. I've had four. Current Outback has 115,000 miles, WRX has 50,000 miles.

+1 I always have wanted a Forester Sti.

 

[jesse10]

I heard alot of audi's are not long lasting because the transmissions eventually have big problems

 

[DShareef]

I had a late 90's A4. It was a pleasure to drive but was constantly in the shop. I gave it to my parents to use as a 3rd car. They too love driving the car but have had a number of issues. I'm actually in the market for a car now and will probably go with a Lexus ES.

 

[kabert]

If you're looking for a used TT, the August 2006 R&T has an article on the subject of used TTs.

My brother drives a 1997 A4. He bought it two years ago with 105K on the clock; now it has about 130K. No problems.

 

[saint]

My wife is on her second Allroad, its much better than any SUV or wagon on the road, especially on wet or icy roads. No probs mechanically with either of them. The turbo does lag slightly, but its performance and looks are better than pretty much any comparable ****** mover.

 

[greg_atlanta]

Most happy German car owners are LEASING, not buying new or used.

An Audi is an investment OPPORTUNITY, not an investment. You'll have sunk so much money into it over 5 years you'll hate to get rid of it and lose your repair/maintenance investment.

Let's say you pay $20,000 now. Over 5 years you'll probably average $3,000 year in repairs ($15,000), and after 5 years the trade in value is $5000.

investment: $35,000

return: $5,000 (and something to drive for 5 years)

So for $30,000 you could have bought a decent new car, and when it's paid for you'll have a resale value of at least $10,000.

 

[AnotherVictim]

Making a quick reply without reading the rest of the thread (ill read it later):

I'd say it's not a good investment. Longterm the maintenance will be killer, and the resell value when youre ready for a new car will be neglible.

 

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by greg_atlanta

Most happy German car owners are LEASING, not buying new or used.

An Audi is an investment OPPORTUNITY, not an investment. You'll have sunk so much money into it over 5 years you'll hate to get rid of it and lose your repair/maintenance investment.

Let's say you pay $20,000 now. Over 5 years you'll probably average $3,000 year in repairs ($15,000), and after 5 years the trade in value is $5000.

investment: $35,000

return: $5,000 (and something to drive for 5 years)

So for $30,000 you could have bought a decent new car, and when it's paid for you'll have a resale value of at least $10,000.

While agree leasing is best when you don't have the time and energy to deal with repairs your cost outline above is faulty. New cars take a big hit on depreciation the first couple of years. Buying a 2-3 year old car is a usually a good deal when looking at money spent/utility received.

Your analysis is incorrect.

Let's take a typical model:

2005 A4 2.0T, quattro, manual, 24,000 -- current value $23,830 (KBB.com, private party, good condition)

Now let's assume you bought a similar model 5 years ago:

2000 A4 1.8T, quattro, manual, 78,000 -- current value $10,000 (KBB.com, Private party, good condition)

both 2000 and 2005 model year Audis have a warranty and free maintenance included untill 50,000 miles/4-years. That means you will only have to pay about 2 years worth of maintenance repairs. Your estimate of $3000 a year is way too high. I would say $1500 a year would still be too high but let's go with it.

Total cost of ownership= $13,830 depreciation+ $3000 two years of repairs= $16,830 to drive this A4 for 5 years. Not a bad deal if you ask me.


To get $35,000 out of $20,000 you need an effective rate of return of almost 12% yearly. Not something you can reliably guarantee.

 

[greg_atlanta]

$1500/yr in maintenance only is reasonable, but $3000/yr averages in the cost of unexpected repairs. German cars start having problems around the 60K mile mark, while most Japanese cars can go 100K with almost nothing unexpected happening. Major engine work, A/C repair, transmission replacement/rebuild (or clutch), electrical problems (very high labor cost to diagnose), drivetrain (CV joints, quatto problems), etc. Some owners may get lucky and have nothing unusual happen until 100K, but the car is more likely than not to face unexpected repairs beyond normal wear and tear during a 5 year period.

Most Audis are FWD (or FWD-biased AWD systems) so that cuts the fun factor compared to RWD. All are front heavy.

 

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by greg_atlanta

$1500/yr in maintenance only is reasonable, but $3000/yr averages in the cost of unexpected repairs. German cars start having problems around the 60K mile mark, while most Japanese cars can go 100K with almost nothing unexpected happening. Major engine work, A/C repair, transmission replacement/rebuild (or clutch), electrical problems (very high labor cost to diagnose), drivetrain (CV joints, quatto problems), etc. Some owners may get lucky and have nothing unusual happen until 100K, but the car is more likely than not to face unexpected repairs beyond normal wear and tear during a 5 year period.

Most Audis are FWD (or FWD-biased AWD systems) so that cuts the fun factor
compared to RWD. All are front heavy.

Are you talking from personal experience?

In general all german cars are less reliable and more expensive to repair than Japanese cars.

That is why Audi have a 4-year warranty and free maintenance (no free maintenance on 2007+ though). Extended warranties are available and recommended for all German cars.

Quattro is one of the best AWD systems on the market amongst passenger cars. It is very reliable and I have never heard or read of anyone having any problems with it.

At least 95% of Audis in US are Quattro. They are front heavy but not as front heavy as Japanese FWD cars. If you live where inclement weather is not comon than you may prefer a RWD car. In the Northeast quattro is a great asset.

Electrical problems are easy to diagnose in Audi/VW cars since every component is connected together and to the main controller. You can buy a VAG COM program and install it on a laptop to do your own electrical diagnosis. You can then interrogate, test, adjust and re-program all electrical systems on the car.