The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[Lensmaster]

As I've said I live in a small Michigan city that doesn't have lots of galas or public functions. But I wear my tux several times a year. The local Orchestra has five concerts a year and I go to two or three of them and I wear a tux. Sometimes someone does ask if I'm in the orchestra, which is interesting because the orchestra is all wearing tails, but that doesn't bother me. The only way to keep black tie as an evening option is for people to wear it. It seems young people want to dress up more. That is why they are wearing suits to work more than their fathers did. If they see people wearing black tie they will see how elegant it is.

 

[pvrhye]

For what it's worth, Kermit looks pretty good in a notch lapel.

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

 

[JLibourel]

A neighbor of mine had been to a black-tie event Saturday night. She told me a fair percentage of the men were in more-or-less proper black tie rigs. However, quite a few men had paired ordinary black suits with black shirts, which sounds pretty ghastly to me. Others wore black suits with sweaters, which sounds as bad or worse. This was supposed to be a decidedly upscale event, so this is a sad commentary on the state of black tie, at least in my part of the world!

 

[Brideshead]

I have read this thread with great interest.

It started off as an analysis of the current state of black tie and almost inevitably by page 3 evolved into a discussion about the state of classic men’s style in 2011.

What I have found especially fascinating is the idea put forward by :foo: that an item of clothing can go from being perceived as ‘old fashioned’ to fashionable again. This seems to contradict a popular view often proposed by Sator and others that we are on a very slippery slope indeed from Frock Coat to Morning Coat to Lounge suit to hoodie! And from which there is no way back. The idea that because something is fashionable, nobody views it as old-fashioned, despite its obvious association with a previous time period is something I had not really considered.

On the other hand some of the ideas above about any form of tailored clothing being seen as almost costume in the current age seems to support the Sator argument.

Going right back to the original post I also have limited black tie experience and cannot recall going in recent years to an event that was more formal than ‘black tie or smart lounge suit’. However, where most men a few years ago opted for the lounge suit, now far more (and younger men) are trying the dinner jacket. Not always successfully but enough has been said about that.

A final thought from me. We often criticise the very casual world into which we have descended, but I often wonder – were men on the whole actually well dressed in past times or rather simply more ‘formally dressed’?

 

[TheWorldsFinest]



.

 

[urfloormatt]

Don't Brooks Brothers do a complete range of black-tie outfits and accessories(including pumps)? I know my father needed a tux for a cruise a few years back, Think he just went to the local Marks & Spencer for it, as he didn't want to spend too much on something that was only going to get used for a couple of weeks.

True, but as someone who recently bought a tux from BB, trying to find a peak lapel jacket (there are only two options, one single, one double-breasted, all in the Madison fit) is like trying to find a waterfall in the middle of the desert. I was told, after a search, that they did not carry any in stock in the DC area. Could be the time of year though, I suppose. I was also told they do not stock the Fitzgerald fit tuxedo in stores, which is what I ended up buying via online. Notch lapel only, center vent only, but at least it's a one-button jacket. Flap pockets, but you can slip them inside for the more correct jetted look. I suppose I could find a tailor to close the vent, though I find the vent functional and the lack of any vent a bit unnecessarily stuffy.

Regardless, I'm not a huge fan of the peak lapel unless the lapels are very narrow. Thick lapels with peaks look garish to me. This is also why I'm not a fan of double breasted suits, as the lapels tend to be the thickest, and the peaks reflect that. Not sure I'd be okay with even the narrower lapels of the Fitz cut in a peak style.

While we're on the subject, and turning to Bond for guidance, I think Bond's approach to go without studs is the right approach. Keep the focus on the suit itself and off the jewelry. Keep away from unnecessary extravagance, since, as others have pointed out, the tuxedo's purpose is not to stand out but to meet the occasion. Studs also distract from the overall appearance by breaking up the crisp whiteness of a fine tuxedo shirt.

Connery and Craig also typically went without cummerbund. I've read (elsewhere, but have not seen it addressed here) that some believe a cummerbund is unnecessary if one is wearing braces. I'd be curious on everyone's thoughts on that. I never saw the cummerbund as a supportive garment like a belt, so I'm not sure what the rationale for braces in lieu of a cummerbund is, other than the general perception (probably wrong) that the cummerbund is as dated as the ruffled tuxedo shirt.

 

[Lensmaster]

Braces are simply to hold up the pants. A cummerbund was just a newfangled way to cover the waistband of the pants. Traditionally men wore a waistcoat to cover the waistband and the braces so they wouldn't be seen. A double breasted coat is always buttoned so doesn't require a waist covering.

I like simple black studs on a shirt. they make a line from the tie to the coat, connecting the tie to the suit.

Though notch lapel dinner jackets have been around since the 30's they traditionally weren't very common. They look so much like business suits. Peak lapels, as well as shawl collars, look more formal. Manufacturers today make the peak lapel because it's cheap, they can use the same patterns they already have for business suits and make them black, instant tux.

 

[F. Corbera]

^ in your last sentence, you meant to write step or "notch" lapel.

 

[Butler]



True, but as someone who recently bought a tux from BB, trying to find a peak lapel jacket (there are only two options, one single, one double-breasted, all in the Madison fit) is like trying to find a waterfall in the middle of the desert.  I was told, after a search, that they did not carry any in stock in the DC area.  Could be the time of year though, I suppose.  I was also told they do not stock the Fitzgerald fit tuxedo in stores, which is what I ended up buying via online.  Notch lapel only, center vent only, but at least it's a one-button jacket.  Flap pockets, but you can slip them inside for the more correct jetted look.  I suppose I could find a tailor to close the vent, though I find the vent functional and the lack of any vent a bit unnecessarily stuffy.

Regardless, I'm not a huge fan of the peak lapel unless the lapels are very narrow.  Thick lapels with peaks look garish to me.  This is also why I'm not a fan of double breasted suits, as the lapels tend to be the thickest, and the peaks reflect that.  Not sure I'd be okay with even the narrower lapels of the Fitz cut in a peak style.

While we're on the subject, and turning to Bond for guidance, I think Bond's approach to go without studs is the right approach.  Keep the focus on the suit itself and off the jewelry.  Keep away from unnecessary extravagance, since, as others have pointed out, the tuxedo's purpose is not to stand out but to meet the occasion.  Studs also distract from the overall appearance by breaking up the crisp whiteness of a fine tuxedo shirt.

Connery and Craig also typically went without cummerbund.  I've read (elsewhere, but have not seen it addressed here) that some believe a cummerbund is unnecessary if one is wearing braces.  I'd be curious on everyone's thoughts on that.  I never saw the cummerbund as a supportive garment like a belt, so I'm not sure what the rationale for braces in lieu of a cummerbund is, other than the general perception (probably wrong) that the cummerbund is as dated as the ruffled tuxedo shirt.

Well there is another reason to wear a cummerbound, braced trousers are traditonally cut higher and will (at least, if they are bespoke and equipped with buttons for the tab on the shirt) subsequently cover the problem area where the starched or stiff part of the shirt and the soft part meets - lower unbraced will not!

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Butler, I saw a man in New York that looked very much like you about a month ago. I yelled "Butler" at him and he didn't turn around so I guess it wasn't you. My girlfriend asked me, "Did you just call that guy a Butler?"

 

[Butler]



Butler, I saw a man in New York that looked very much like you about a month ago. I yelled "Butler" at him and he didn't turn around so I guess it wasn't you. My girlfriend asked me, "Did you just call that guy a Butler?"

Ha ha - I've been called worse

But no, It was not me. I lived in Manhattan 2 1/2 years when I was there as a young diplomat, and visits quite often, but not the last couple of years!

 

[Althis]

I'm only a second year college student, but I tried to make my black tie as proper as I could with my given resources. I put this ensemble together my senior year of high school with intent to use it for prom, concerts (I play the violin), and other black tie events. While I wanted to go with traditional aesthetics, I did not want to be too old school. I went with a Thick as Thieves MTM tuxedo with traditional features (single button, no vent, satin facing on lapels and trouser stripe, no rear trouser pockets, no cuff on trousers, silk covered buttons, welted pockets, etc.) Because I was on a budget, I with a Zegna pique bib dress shirt with MOP buttons (they are replaceable with studs though) and spread collar from the B&S. I chose to go with a cummerbund as the pique bib extended to middriff and a diamond pointed self tie bow tie. I went with an Armani silk cummerbund (also from the B&S) and a silk Polo Ralph Lauren bow tie on sale from their website. For shoes, I went with a pair of patent cap toes by Loake for Charles Tyrwhitt (also from B&S) and plain doublesided MOP cuff links and cotton pocket square from Kent Wang.

For under 1000$ altogether, I don't think I could have done any better. It may not be completely up to SF standards, but can say I definitely was dressed better than many of my friends.

I do believe in proper formal wear, but because I am merely a college student, I can't really dress too eccentrically every day, so I try to make it count when I can.

(I do need to have the trousers altered a bit, I was on swim team and water polo during high school and am on the cycling team now so my physique has changed, but the jacket fits even better)

 

[patrickBOOTH]



Ha ha - I've been called worse
But no, It was not me. I lived in Manhattan 2 1/2 years when I was there as a young diplomat, and visits quite often, but not the last couple of years!

Well happy new year to you all the same!

 

[Lensmaster]



^ in your last sentence, you meant to write step or "notch" lapel.

Yes, thanks for catching that error.

 

[Lensmaster]



I'm only a second year college student, but I tried to make my black tie as proper as I could with my given resources. I put this ensemble together my senior year of high school with intent to use it for prom, concerts (I play the violin), and other black tie events. While I wanted to go with traditional aesthetics, I did not want to be too old school. I went with a Thick as Thieves MTM tuxedo with traditional features (single button, no vent, satin facing on lapels and trouser stripe, no rear trouser pockets, no cuff on trousers, silk covered buttons, welted pockets, etc.) Because I was on a budget, I with a Zegna pique bib dress shirt with MOP buttons (they are replaceable with studs though) and spread collar from the B&S. I chose to go with a cummerbund as the pique bib extended to middriff and a diamond pointed self tie bow tie. I went with an Armani silk cummerbund (also from the B&S) and a silk Polo Ralph Lauren bow tie on sale from their website. For shoes, I went with a pair of patent cap toes by Loake for Charles Tyrwhitt (also from B&S) and plain doublesided MOP cuff links and cotton pocket square from Kent Wang.
For under 1000$ altogether, I don't think I could have done any better. It may not be completely up to SF standards, but can say I definitely was dressed better than many of my friends.

I do believe in proper formal wear, but because I am merely a college student, I can't really dress too eccentrically every day, so I try to make it count when I can.
(I do need to have the trousers altered a bit, I was on swim team and water polo during high school and am on the cycling team now so my physique has changed, but the jacket fits even better)

Don't apologize, That is all very classic and you look very good. As you observed you probably look better than 90% of men trying to wear black tie today.