The Cocktail Thread

[graphix]

if the bar isn't to busy i usually just tell them how i like it made. i try not to be to specific, for a Manhattan i might say 'rye if you have any, heavy on the vermouth, with bitters' which means i usually get close to what i want, and they usually go about 1/2 ounce on the vermouth when is say that instead of the common 2 drops.

if its not really really bad...but fixable, i just deal with a few sips to make some room in the glass then ask if they can add a bit more of this or that to the drink. i haven't had anyone have a problem with that yet. the only thing i wouldn't ask for is more of the main spirit in the drink just because bartenders get people trying to scam an extra 1/2 ounce of alcohol all the time.

the bar i worked at last year charged 2x the cost of the drink for doubles, should have seen peoples faces when i told them their double grey goose and soda was going to be $26 or something absurd like that.

 

[rdawson808]

If the drink is wrong, send it back. No other options. You can't hardly drink some swill "bartenders" make for you when they don't know what they're doing.

I'm well versed at sending them back since I tend to order either a Rob Roy, a Grasshopper, or a simple Pernod and water.

The color is always the tip-off. Then a sip and you know.

My wife prefers a Campari w/ Sprite or a Gimlet.


b

 

[Mr. Checks]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Never heard of the Maidstone, but sounds worthy of a try. LK, I know The Last Word, sounds your style with the Maraschino. Larsen, I've had a most excellent White Lady in my time -- a nice gentle drink.

I pay ~$14 for excellent cocktails even outside of NYC, though my last in Bemelman's was $15 -- a sidecar. It was ok.

Checks, thanks for the cherry source tip -- drove out to Williams-Sonoma yesterday and bought a crock. The checkout lady asked where I find them; apparently someone called and inquired, but the staff didn't know what they were or where they were.

~ Huntsman

Glad it worked out. My store couldn't find them either, as they weren't next to the other cherries and the olives.

I'd hate to tell you all what I usually pay for cocktails (I usually don't pay, and if I do it's never over $8)

 

[texas_jack]

Does eggnog and Mount Gay count as a cocktail? I'm drinking that right now.

 

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Checks

Glad it worked out. My store couldn't find them either, as they weren't next to the other cherries and the olives.

I'd hate to tell you all what I usually pay for cocktails (I usually don't pay, and if I do it's never over $8)

Hmmmmmm....has your WS opened within, say, the last six months? I ask as I was wondering about the chances that someone called the one I went to asking for those cherries.

Actually not worried about what anyone pays; I really enjoy every aspect of the experience and $14ish is worth it to me (even though I probably make half what a majority of SFers make).

~ Huntsman

 

[Kent Wang]

$6-8 is par for the course for a poor to mediocre cocktail. With that in mind, $12-15 for an excellent one is a steal.

Consider $25 for a steak at Outback versus $50 at Ruth's Chris, Peter Luger, etc. What would you rather have?

 

[LabelKing]

I tend to like drinks, so usually one rather small cocktail is not enough.

 

[graphix]

to me, going to just any bar and ordering a grasshopper or a Rob Roy and then sending it back because its not made well is like going to Denny's to get a good steak then sending it back because what you got is not NY Prime sirloin.

 

[aybojs]

Originally Posted by graphix

to me, going to just any bar and ordering a grasshopper or a Rob Roy and then sending it back because its not made well is like going to Denny's to get a good steak then sending it back because what you got is not NY Prime sirloin.

I know you busted my balls earlier, but I think we're on the same boat. I know my bar scene very well in my city (Houston, which is the 4th most populous in the country), and I'd honestly have a lot of trouble thinking of a bar which stocks both green creme de menthe and white creme de cacao. Seriously, even the guy who complained about rusty nails earlier on probably doesn't get the fact that my bar, which is one of the most high volume in the city, sat on a bottle of Drambuie for well over a year without a single person ordering that drink (it was killed by a Brit who spent the night ordering neat Drambuie shots). I think that's one thing that bugs me about the e-gullet/wannabe cocktail afficianiado crowd; they learn the drinks, but they have no idea of how niche their requests are. I'd love to make you the great drink you read about on drinkboy.com, but the fact is, the economic reality makes it so it isn't even worthwhile to stock the liqueurs you need for it, and you certainly shouldn't take it out on the bartenders, who are just used to preparing basic highballs, because that's what the non-pretentious crowd orders.

 

[Huntsman]

Heck, the little Irish pub I sat in when I was five had both creme de menthe and white creme de cacao. They were Jacquin's but hey.

I live in the country and there's no way I go to a corner bar and order a Manhattan, there's no way I go to the corner bar and order a JW Red Label. BUt the better bars in the area ought to be able to make a Rob Roy, if not, why are they the 'better bars.' Still that doesn't even mean I'll drop in there and order a Ramos Gin Fizz, either. There's a level of appropriateness for the establishment and the area, but it has to be balanced by idea that you should be able to expect a better steak at Aureole than at Denny's, too, even if it isn't the gustatory precision of Thomas Keller.

Regards,
Huntsman

 

[aybojs]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Heck, the little Irish pub I sat in when I was five had both creme de menthe and white creme de cacao. They were Jacquin's but hey.

I live in the country and there's no way I go to a corner bar and order a Manhattan, there's no way I go to the corner bar and order a JW Red Label. BUt the better bars in the area ought to be able to make a Rob Roy, if not, why are they the 'better bars.' Still that doesn't even mean I'll drop in there and order a Ramos Gin Fizz, either. There's a level of appropriateness for the establishment and the area, but it has to be balanced by idea that you should be able to expect a better steak at Aureole than at Denny's, too, even if it isn't the gustatory precision of Thomas Keller.

Regards,
Huntsman

I'm not making my posts just to be a dick, dude, but seriously, I work as a bartender. I have a very full gauge of what people order. In my 2 years behind the bar, I've never seen a rusty nail, a grasshopper, an old fashioned, a Ramos gin fizz, a Last Word, an Aviation, or whatever trendy drink is ordered by wannabe cocktail experts who read e-gullet order. I know how to make all those drinks, and I know how to make them well, but from the perspective of a bar owner, what is the point of stocking the liquors or liqueurs that make that drink if there is, at best, a one in 1000 chance that someone might actually order those drinks. If I were a bar owner, it would be a waste of my money to stock Drambuie in the one in a million chance that someone might come in and order a Rusty Nail. I can make more than my fair share of Redheaded Sluts, Surfers on Acid, or Bull Blasters because people actually order Jaeger. I can't even count on one hand the bars that have the ingredients to make a proper Grasshopper, but that's because the demand for such a drink just isn't high enough for the bars around here to stock green creme de menthe and white creme de cacao. Anyway, my point is that the people who would like to put on airs by labelling themselves cocktail experts don't realize how limited their recipes are, and tend to put on airs when actually ordering at real bars where the supply and demand are taken into account.

 

[Skiffing]

Originally Posted by aybojs

I'm not making my posts just to be a dick, dude, but seriously, I work as a bartender. I have a very full gauge of what people order. In my 2 years behind the bar, I've never seen a rusty nail, a grasshopper, an old fashioned, a Ramos gin fizz, a Last Word, an Aviation, or whatever trendy drink is ordered by wannabe cocktail experts who read e-gullet order. I know how to make all those drinks, and I know how to make them well, but from the perspective of a bar owner, what is the point of stocking the liquors or liqueurs that make that drink if there is, at best, a one in 1000 chance that someone might actually order those drinks. If I were a bar owner, it would be a waste of my money to stock Drambuie in the one in a million chance that someone might come in and order a Rusty Nail. I can make more than my fair share of Redheaded Sluts, Surfers on Acid, or Bull Blasters because people actually order Jaeger. I can't even count on one hand the bars that have the ingredients to make a proper Grasshopper, but that's because the demand for such a drink just isn't high enough for the bars around here to stock green creme de menthe and white creme de cacao. Anyway, my point is that the people who would like to put on airs by labelling themselves cocktail experts don't realize how limited their recipes are, and tend to put on airs when actually ordering at real bars where the supply and demand are taken into account.
Uh, hate to break to you "dude" but you do come off as a dick. I've lurked here for some time and most of your posts come off as aggressive and douchebaggy despite all your potshots at people you deem pretentious or douchey. You seem to have this big need to act "real" and call out all the posers especially since you know, you graduated from Princeton where apparently, you were the "realest" one there. Wouldn't want to work at white collar place so Whoa!, working as a bartender now.

 

[rdawson808]

Originally Posted by graphix

to me, going to just any bar and ordering a grasshopper or a Rob Roy and then sending it back because its not made well is like going to Denny's to get a good steak then sending it back because what you got is not NY Prime sirloin.

I didn't say "not made well". I am talking about drinks flat-out made incorrectly. Wrong ingredients. You look at the color and wonder how your Rob Roy got so light in color. Take a sip. Wrong? Send it back. Why is my Grasshopper white? Maybe they just didn't have green Creme de Menthe. Take a sip. Taste okay? Keep it. Wrong ingredients, send it back. I had one the other night that was the first the bartender had ever made (he told me). It needed a dash more cream. I did not send it back.

And for that matter, I've had bartenders ask me how the drink is and offer to make me a new one if it's not quite right. That's good customer service in my opinion.

I don't go to dive bars, I do pay a lot of money for drinks, and I expect the drink to be made the right way.

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[Mr. Checks]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

$6-8 is par for the course for a poor to mediocre cocktail. With that in mind, $12-15 for an excellent one is a steal.

Consider $25 for a steak at Outback versus $50 at Ruth's Chris, Peter Luger, etc. What would you rather have?


I was gloating a bit; for some reason even a well-made cocktail like a Roy Roy or Manhattan doesn't top $8 in my area but nobody makes the fancy stuff around here so I'd willingly pay $12-15 for something special, just that no one does that here (one place that made a killer mojito just closed because the locals won't pay for the difference between decent and excellent)

 

[rdawson808]

I should add to my earlier posts, and after reading aybojs's more thoroughly, that for a bartender to tell me they do not have the ingredients is fine in my book. You don't stock X, fine. I may not come back to your bar, but I won't complain about you not having some esoteric liquor.

However, if you ain't got simply Creme de Menthe, that seems weird to me. No bitters? Odd. No <fill in the blank with something rare>? Not that surprising.



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