RM Williams Boots - Everything You Wanted to Know

[Arethusa]

I'm hardly an expert, but I'm kind of surprised that they'd look like that while fitting properly. skal, yours look about the same, I assume?

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Arethusa

I'm hardly an expert, but I'm kind of surprised that they'd look like that while fitting properly. skal, yours look about the same, I assume?
Hmm, sort of close. The leather stretches A LOT and moulds to the foot... Clarification: my foot does not really extend past the sole/welt. Just looks that way there in his pic...

 

[antirabbit]

I just took possession of my new $100.00, roo leather craftsman boots, these are super lovely, the leather is not as wrinkly as I thought they would be, put a layer of polish on and they are now simply amazing. They were pretty much new (worn twice). I think I got a good deal.

 

[DocHolliday]

I definitely think you'll get more than $100 of wear out of them.

 

[antirabbit]

Mine are a 9.5 H, which I was worried about, I met the seller to avoid shipping costs and he had wide shoes, then I looked at these and understood why he sold them. They didnt fit. I am glad he didnt wear them much, he would have ruined them. He said he bought them direct after seeing Matt Lauer do a piece on them on some cheesy NBC morning show thing....my gain I guess! IS there any word on Sutors make of the craftsman?

Would some pics of the roo leather help any one?

 

[DocHolliday]

I'd like to see the Roo leather, if it's convenient.

 

[My View2]

Hi everyone,

Steve from Nungar needs no further endorsement from me but I will put in a good word for him after my very pleasant experience dealing with him very recently.

I was in Sydney for business. I arrived on a Friday, went to an RM Williams shop to try out the Craftman Yearling. I tried 3 sizes:

1) 8.5G
2) 8.5H
3) 8G
4) 8H

Although my feet were very wide and flat, I was surprised that 8.5G was wide enough for me (my best fitting shoes are Edward Green 8.5F in Last 202 but as you all know, Edward Green's F fitting is usually somewhere between most firm's "F" and "G"). The 8.5H was less snug throughout but I feel boots should feel slightly snug so the leather can stretch to mould round the feet.

A while later, I called Steve from Nungar and told him I was from SF. He was very happy to receive my call and said that the SF exposure was helping his business a lot. Steve was a very very pleasant person to talk to. During our conversation, he even invited me to visit his farm(!) if I had more time. I placed my order: Craftman Yearling 8.5G in Chestnut and volunteered to give him my Credit Card number. He promised delivery to my hotel by Thursday and said that my card will not be charged until I had received my order and was happy with it.

The boots were delivered on Thursday as promised. Free of any scratches or scuff, they were a perfect pair. I put them on and they fitted well as expected. I called Steve and told him I was happy with them and that he could charge my card. Cost was something like AUD 249 + AUD 12 for delivery.

Ever since last Thursday, I had worn those boots 3 times, each time over many hours and they felt great (except for a small pressure point on both feel between the arch and heel - but with my experience in buying shoes, I am confident that my feet will get used to the feeling in no time). I really like them and look forward to putting them on again.

Dealing with Steve was a painless and most pleasurable experience. And I thank Sator for his recommendation.

 

[grimslade]

Originally Posted by TheOneTrueMatt

Are the RMW boot trees made to match the lasts on the boots at all? Or will Woodlore trees for $10-20 less work just as well? I was going to just order the RMW trees anyway, but I don't see them on the Nungar site.


RMW trees are standard Woodlore or Rochester boot trees. I also don't think they fit their boots particularly well, in addition to being overpriced. They tend to bump up against the vamp and so don't fill the forefoot area where they are needed. You are better off, IMHO, with standard shoe trees.

 

[antirabbit]

I put regular cedar trees from Target in mine, I am concerned that the shape of the tree is incompatable with the chisel toe, is this something I should worry about?

 

[grimslade]

Not so much, really. The toe box has some kind of rigid interlining anyway (plastic?). It's really around the crease point at the balls of the feet that the tree does its best work.

 

[Sator]

I just wanted to let you guys know that my Forum Special boots I ordered through Steve just arrived. It is Thursday lunchtime here, but I will get my camera out tonight and post pics. So check back here tomorrow morning US or UK/European time! Exciting stuff.

 

[well-kept]

I actually spoke to Steve yesterday on a separate matter and in passing mentioned the Forum Special. He told me it had just come in. Look forward to seeing yours.

 

[lockey2k]

Originally Posted by Sator

I just wanted to let you guys know that my Forum Special boots I ordered through Steve just arrived. It is Thursday lunchtime here, but I will get my camera out tonight and post pics. So check back here tomorrow morning US or UK/European time! Exciting stuff.

When did you place the order?

 

[Sator]

At long last, the Forum Special model has arrived. I put this configuration together in response to a couple of valid criticisms about the standard offerings from RMW. The first was that they were insufficiently sleek. The second was that the construction lacked refinement. The result was that some have expressed concern that they were too much of a country style casual boot to be worn as a city dress boot with a suit. I have tried to address these point by putting together a configuration that brought together all of the strengths of the maker in one custom order model. Firstly, I have chosen French veal calf. It is their best quality leather. All boots made with it look notably more refined and the leather polishes up beautifully. Next, I decided to find a last that was the sleekest that they offered. To make it even sleeker, I decided to go up a 1/2 size from my usual Craftsman and drop down on width. I tried the size on, and it fit me like a glove with a very similar fit to what I subjectively get from Park Avenues (my yardstick for comparing sizes). Lastly, I noticed that the brass screwed leather soles had almost no lip jutting out from around the edge of the shoe. The fact that RMW are one of the few RTW bootmakers around who still offer boots utilising this construction method made it even more attractive. I have heard that many Austro-Hungarian bespoke bootmakers still favour the technique. RMW say that the brass screwed leather sole is replaceable and the brass screws wear down with the leather. Boots of this construction are, of course, suitable as dress shoes. I have confirmed that this is indeed the case with RMW in South Australia. This position agrees with the information on their website and catalogue. A forumite was mistakenly told by an ill informed salesman at the NY RMW store that it is meant only for riding boots. Aesthetically, the brass screwed boots are much more pleasing than the RMW Goodyear welted boots:

This is what it looks like. Just to emphasise how sleek they are I have placed them side by side with a pair of UK size 7E Canonbury boots from John Lobb on their famous 7000 last. Incredibly, in terms of sleekness, the RMW Forum Special model (on the left) scarcely loses anything to its illustrious rival:

Even more surprisingly, the the Forum Special has a less prominent lip jutting out around the boots than the Goodyear welted John Lobbs:

If anything the Forum Special may arguably be a touch sleeker than the John Lobbs on their 7000 last. If You Know Your Size in the Craftsman Already Go up a size and down a width letter Craftsman size 10H: Forum Special size would be 10.5G Craftsman size 10G: Forum Special size would be 10.5F Craftsman size 10F: Forum Special size would be 10.5E Working Out Your Sized Based on Allen Edmonds Park Avenues This is the Stock Standard Formula I have used to work out sizing. It works perfectly for me, though the result is really skin tight: AE PA size minus 0.5 but drop down 2 widths from your usual width Example: If you wear AE 10EEE your RMW size is 9.5H If you wear AE 10EE your RMW size is 9.5G (medium) If you wear AE 10E = RMW 9.5F If you wear AE 10D (medium) = RMW 9.5E If you wear AE 10C = RMW 9.5D In my case I wear AE PA 8D so I ordered an RMW 7.5E Remember, I can only guarantee success when you order in the French veal calf. The yearling is thicker and less supple/stretchy and will feel up to a half size narrower. The kangaroo is even stretchier than the veal calf. The only potential problem I can forsee (you will get to see objective measurements for yourself soon) is the Forum Special measures a fraction a narrower than my Park Avenues. If your PAs are extremely snug side to side (mine are quite snug sideways) or you want a looser fit you could go up a width. I will call this the Looser Fit Standard Formula. AE PA size minus 0.5 and go down a width. Example: If you wear AE 10EE your RMW size is 9.5H If you wear AE 10E = RMW 9.5G (medium) If you wear AE 10D (medium) = RMW 9.5F If you wear AE 10C = RMW 9.5E Here is a comparison of the lengths of the Forum Special in RMW 7.5E vs an AE Park Ave 8D: Here is a close up of the tips of the toes. You can see that the AE Nr 5 last is a very long nosed extended last: Remember, those of you happily wearing the Craftsman in AE PA size minus one will be wearing even shorter boots than this. Here is a comparison of the widths. I am using calipers to compare widths. I set the calipers at the maximum width of the PAs: Then I take the calipers set at that width over to the Forum Specials: Notice that there is a gap of about 3 millimetres, showing that the PA measure wider. Though the Forum Special is narrower, the subjective sensation is one of a very similar fit to the PAs shown. I think the RMW has softer leather and the last has more volume vertically over the vamp. My 8D PAs are quite snug on me, especially sideways. The Forum Special definitely feels wider than AE 8Cs, which are way too narrow for me to fit into without pain. OK, maybe the Forum Special feels subjectively just a tiny fraction narrower and quite snug around the ankles. But I like that feel of ankle support and the leather is already soft and supple brand new. As they get broken in that snugness should gradually ease off. If you are desparately concerned about the faint narrowness and shortness relative to PAs of the Forum Special in my Standard Formula, you could order a Forum Special using the Alternative Formula: The same size as your AE PA size but drop down 2 widths from your usual width Example: If you wear AE 10EEE your RMW size is 10H If you wear AE 10EE your RMW size is 10G (medium) If you wear AE 10E => RMW 10F If you wear AE 10D (medium) => RMW 10E If you wear AE 10C => RMW 10D Working Out Your Sizing Based On Crockett and Jones Sizing Next for C&J afficionados this is my standard sizing conversion: C&J UK size plus 0.5 and drop down two widths Example C&J UK 10F (wide) => RMW 10.5F C&J UK 10E (medium) => RMW 10.5E C&J UK 10D (narrow) => RMW 10.5D Here is a comparison with a pair of UK size 7E Norfolks (not a regular catalogue offering) - possibly on the 335 last like the Coniston: You can see on this close up that the lengths are pretty much identical: Width wise, the C&Js measure much wider. However, once again the softer leather and greater volume over the vamps means that the fit feels subjectively identical. If concerned you can go one width up. Working Out Your Size Based on John Lobb 7000 Last Sizing Sizing vs the 7000 Last plus 0.5, and drop down one RMW size: Example UK Size 10 => RMW 10.5 You can see that 7000 last and the Forum special are similar in length: The 7000 last both feels wider as well as measuring wider. My conversion is thus: 7000 last UK size plus 0.5 and drop down one width: Example: UK size 10F (wide) => RMW 10.5G (medium) UK size 10E (medium) => RMW 10.5F UK size 10D (narrow) => RMW 10.5E Ordering the Forum Special Model Lastly, pricing. I spoke to Steve at Nungar and he is offering a 5% discount on special orders for the Forum Special model at a price of $285 AUD (ie 224 US dollars, 172 Euros, or 113 Pounds Sterling at the time of writing). When you e-mail him ([email protected]) just mention that you are ordering the Forum Special model (flat heel, B529 last, French veal calf, brass screwed leather soles). Remember, that this something I dreamt up and if you contact RMW directly enquiring about the Forum Special they will think you are mad. Steve however should know exactly what you are talking about. For those of you wanting to order in yearling leather the cost is $240 AUD. And for kangaroo it is $255 AUD. For the kangaroo leather I would only use my Stock Standard Formula (AE PA size minus 0.5 and down two widths). For the yearling use the Looser Fit Standard Formula or else use the Alternative Formula.

 

[lefty]

Very nice.

I went back to the NY store and she still insisted that the screwed sole was only for riding. She then showed me the boots she was wearing ... screwed sole. I asked her where she kept her horse.

No sense of humour, that girl.

lefty