Nigel Cabourn

[dieworkwear]

Its interesting to read the "journal" articles on Cabourn.com on the different manufacturers Cabourn uses such as ESK. I wonder why they haven't made such an article about their production in China. If they can't stand up for what their doing and instead try to "hide" their "made in China" label they have a big problem.

It's because people like you have deep prejudices, despite anything that can be said about China or whatever else.

I agree with @ManofKent and @g transistor above, but it's also not even really about China. People could be told literally anything -- UK has sweatshop problems, exports help development, China has some great areas for productions, etc. It's about people's prejudices.

How many people raise issue with Saint Crispin's being made in Romania? Who says "let me see the wage stubs of the workers in that factory?" Or "how much does each worker get for those $1,500 shoes?" Or "tell Saint Crispin's to give me a full breakdown of their entire supply chain, even if it reveals proprietary sourcing that may ruin their competitiveness?"

Almost nobody says that for Eastern European countries, despite some very, very expensive luxury items being made there (GDP per capita for Romania, incidentally, is about the same as Beijing). But the moment it's about China, it's a totally different ballpark. Politicians and union leaders around the world have blamed China for all of their problems -- wages, growth, exports, etc. And none of those problems were ever really about China, they're about inherent difficulties in growing a post-industrial economy.

It's impossible to send message though because it's harder to talk about about post-industrial growth problems than it is to blame foreigners. So, it filters down everywhere, including people's prejudices about Chinese made products. @Werder is often using 1980s union politics to describe a 2017 Chinese labor market. You could talk till you're blue in the face and it won't matter cause it's about prejudices. He thinks China is bad.

 

[Werder]

It's because people like you have deep prejudices, despite anything that can be said about China or whatever else.

I agree with @ManofKent and @g transistor above, but it's also not even really about China. People could be told literally anything -- UK has sweatshop problems, exports help development, China has some great areas for productions, etc. It's about people's prejudices.

How many people raise issue with Saint Crispin's being made in Romania? Who says "let me see the wage stubs of the workers in that factory?" Or "how much does each worker get for those $1,500 shoes?" Or "tell Saint Crispin's to give me a full breakdown of their entire supply chain, even if it reveals proprietary sourcing that may ruin their competitiveness?"

Almost nobody says that for Eastern European countries, despite some very, very expensive luxury items being made there (GDP per capita for Romania, incidentally, is about the same as Beijing). But the moment it's about China, it's a totally different ballpark. Politicians and union leaders around the world have blamed China for all of their problems -- wages, growth, exports, etc. And none of those problems were ever really about China, they're about inherent difficulties in growing a post-industrial economy.

It's impossible to send message though because it's harder to talk about about post-industrial growth problems than it is to blame foreigners. So, it filters down everywhere, including people's prejudices about Chinese made products. @Werder is often using 1980s union politics to describe a 2017 Chinese labor market. You could talk till you're blue in the face and it won't matter cause it's about prejudices. He thinks China is bad.

If the fact that a person is critical towards the fact that Nigel Cabourn charges 700 pounds for a jacket which is produced in a country with huge human-rights problems, no real unions and bad working conditions is about prejudices, well, then i ill happily be the "evil" one. You obviously have a "business fixes everything" view on the globalization-issue i thought people who worked with the issue was leaving in the 80s, but i guess the process goes a bit slow at certain places in the world.

To look away from the fact that strong and collaborative unions is a fundamental part of a well-run society just shows how little insight someone has when it comes to how to develop societies and countries. 1980s unions politics? Its about fundamental insight in how to build strong societies with high social mobility.



Many people have stated that China can produce quality and i can't disagree with the fact that they have done that and will continue to do that. I just have huge problems to belive in a brand where the man behind the brand talks so much about that he proudly produces his garments in UK and even states that "I don’t want to make stuff in ******* China" and in the same interview says the following " Visvim is sort of niche, but then he makes it all in China and charges the earth for it. I’m sorry but I don’t see how you can charge £1,000 for a pair of shoes made in China"

http://vestoj.com/conversations-on-slowness/

Sorry, but i can't see how Nigel Cabourn is evolving by doing this.

 

[dieworkwear]

Edit: This convo is derailing the thread. So nm.

 

[desolate]

Edit: This convo is derailing the thread. So nm.

The discussion was really about how it's a bit of a shame that Cabourn has made some stuff in China - you seem to be trying to turn it into something else.

 

[dieworkwear]

The discussion was really about how it's a bit of a shame that Cabourn has made some stuff in China - you seem to be trying to turn it into something else.

I think my points were on the same topic, but on the other side of the aisle. When someone asks "why do manufacturers not advertise their things are made in China," you can see the reasons in the last few pages. No matter the actual facts on the ground -- modernized factories (which I've visited), fair wages, quality products, and a general ethos that I think most people share (e.g. it's good to help others abroad, not just those at home) -- people's aversion to Chinese made products has more to do with their political views on China, not manufacturing or development.

Again, case in point, few people bring this up with $1,500 Romanian shoes. China is a different animal because it's been slandered in the press and blamed post-industrial growth problems. Once you hit a certain level of development, it's hard to grow (both in terms of total GDP and job growth). Part of that has to do with big economic issues, but politicians can't talk about those things because nobody has solutions, so they just point to China.

You could have the finest thing made in China, at the best wages possible, and it wouldn't matter. Schooler's study back in the '60s shows people mostly just read quality off a country of origin tag, which in turn is biased by their prejudices. Working conditions in Southern Italy are sometimes God awful, but people just see romance and "La Dolce Vita" when they see the words "made in Italy."

If someone thinks Cabourn is making a mistake by making in China, that's probably true writ large because people are prejudicial. But if you're genuinely interested in all the things brought up earlier - -- quality of product, working conditions, economic development, cottage industries, craft, etc -- I think it's worth some deeper thinking.

 

[desolate]

John 11:35

 

[London]

Just be transparent all the way through regarding your manufacturing. The U.K. manufacturing story had been a bedrock of NC's marketing. Don't hide the made in China. Visvim doesn't hide their made in China manufacturing.

 

[Werder]

I think my points were on the same topic, but on the other side of the aisle. When someone asks "why do manufacturers not advertise their things are made in China," you can see the reasons in the last few pages. No matter the actual facts on the ground -- modernized factories (which I've visited), fair wages, quality products, and a general ethos that I think most people share (e.g. it's good to help others abroad, not just those at home) -- people's aversion to Chinese made products has more to do with their political views on China, not manufacturing or development.

Again, case in point, few people bring this up with $1,500 Romanian shoes. China is a different animal because it's been slandered in the press and blamed post-industrial growth problems. Once you hit a certain level of development, it's hard to grow (both in terms of total GDP and job growth). Part of that has to do with big economic issues, but politicians can't talk about those things because nobody has solutions, so they just point to China.

You could have the finest thing made in China, at the best wages possible, and it wouldn't matter. Schooler's study back in the '60s shows people mostly just read quality off a country of origin tag, which in turn is biased by their prejudices. Working conditions in Southern Italy are sometimes God awful, but people just see romance and "La Dolce Vita" when they see the words "made in Italy."

If someone thinks Cabourn is making a mistake by making in China, that's probably true writ large because people are prejudicial. But if you're genuinely interested in all the things brought up earlier - -- quality of product, working conditions, economic development, cottage industries, craft, etc -- I think it's worth some deeper thinking.

I think its a very good sign that people are skeptical about the 700 pound jacket Nigel produces in China when you know that there are not any real functioning unions and the minimum wage in China can be extremely low.

When thats been said i do agree with you that these problems occur in other parts of the world as well and its important to be critical towards a "made in England" or "made in Italy" label. Transparency is a good thing and a good example of a company who tries to be transparent about their production is the Norwegian brand Livid Jeans; http://transparency.lividjeans.com

I dont think we can agree on this issue and it seems that there are different views on China when it comes to manufacturing, but i think many people can agree that Nigel did a mistake when he started to produce in China whether this is about prejudices or not. I suspect that this decision wasn't done by Nigel himself.

At least its great to see that this thread is alive and its interesting to hear different opinions and experiences on Nigel Cabourn and the way the brand has been developing the last few years.

 

[ike_hiking_boots]

Sample Sale
On Tuesday 15th August (*doors open 12pm) our Nigel Cabourn Army Gym in Covent Garden, London will be hosting a sale of over 200 sample garments in the basement of the store. These garments are true Nigel Cabourn samples and as such are limited to mainly sizes 48 and 34 for men and size 8 for women. Some are also very rare, one off pieces, that didn't go into final production. This special sale will run for a week or as long as stock lasts!

 

[YoungAmerican]

Are Cabourn's English-made products union-made?

 

[BLAUGRANA]

Ad on a website (from cookies) showed up as I was online. Nordstrom Rack has the Harris Tweed Converse Cameraman shoe in the navy color for $59.97. eBates is only offering 1% cash back for Rack right now, but if you have a Discover card and use Discover Deals you'll get 5% back on your Discover card.

https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/...sku^12251340-adType^PLA&color=DARK NAVY-ORANG

 

[timpoblete]

Sweet deal! Bought.

Ad on a website (from cookies) showed up as I was online. Nordstrom Rack has the Harris Tweed Converse Cameraman shoe in the navy color for $59.97. eBates is only offering 1% cash back for Rack right now, but if you have a Discover card and use Discover Deals you'll get 5% back on your Discover card.

https://www.nordstromrack.com/shop/product/2060291?cm_mmc=feeds-_-adlucent-_-google-_-pla&utm_source=adlucent&utm_medium=feeds&utm_content=google&utm_campaign=pla&sid=545650&aid=[ADL] [PLA] [Shopping] - Categories - Non-Brand[Desktop]&kwid=productads-adid^93310059397-device^c-plaid^271320588638-sku^12251340-adType^PLA&color=DARK NAVY-ORANG

 

[Werder]

Does anyone know when the AW collection arrives? Doesn't it usually come mid august?

 

[BLAUGRANA]

Does anyone know when the AW collection arrives? Doesn't it usually come mid august?

I feel like a bit closer to September or early September. Nothing I saw that really tripped my trigger, but will have to see the whole collection. Newest collaboration doesn't look good at all.

 

[conqueror]

a few things.

i grew up in the UK but now live in australia. my (chinese) girlfriend's aunt had almost zero english proficiency when moving here and used to work for a well-known designer who proclaimed 'made in australia'. however, the actual factory was mostly staffed by asians who were paid illegal wages and treated like ****. i'm sure this is much worse and more widespread in europe with big fashion houses.

re: authenticity - i don't wanna call out a dude i haven't met or label them a 'poser', but does he have any connection with RAF other than having a hard-on for WWII/workwear/historic clothing etc? my grandfather spent his entire career in the RAF until his retirement in the mid 90s and would probably tear that pin off you often see him wear.

re: the actual garments, the price/quality ratio has always been completely off-kilter to me. i almost bought some pocket sweatshirts at the tokyo store a few years ago, but ended up just going with buzz.

edit: his IG account continues to be full of him endlessly chilling with hot broads wearing his ****, so he must be doing something right. hats off.