Is gabardine considered a flannel?

[aaronag]

I thought it (and worsted wool in general) were distinct from flannel, but an article at Die Workwear (and others at Put Thus On), worsted wools are described as just being a type of flannel. The youtube video also attached only confused things more.

“Like all wool fabrics, flannel comes in two forms: worsted and woolen...To give examples, gabardine is worsted; tweeds are generally woolen” - Derek Guy at Die Workwear

Building a Basic Trouser Wardrobe

If you were to shop for a pair of trousers today, you would be buried in options. Over at Mr....

putthison.com

 

[Despos]

There are two types of flannel, woolen and worsted.
woolen has more nap, looks fuzzy and no visible weave.

worsted doesn't have a fuzzy appearance and has a slightly visible twill weave.

woolen is softer than worsted.

didn't watch the video, don’t know what was said

 

[emptym]

No, and Derek wasn't claiming it was. He said worsteds are a type of flannel, not "just" a type of flannel, as you wrote. Iow, he wasn't claiming that all worsteds are flannels. After saying there are two types of flannels, worsted and woolen, he went on to explain worsted fabrics and woolens. And then he offered gabardine as an example of a worsted fabric, not as a type of flannel (and tweed as generally an example of a woolen, not as a type of flannel).

It'd be like saying, "Eggs come in two colors: white and brown... White is.... Brown is... To give examples, clouds are white and chocolate's brown." This doesn't mean clouds and chocolate are types of eggs.

 

[aaronag]

And then he offered gabardine as an example of a worsted fabric, not as a type of flannel (and tweed as generally an example of a woolen, not as a type of flannel).

Ah, so a wordier way of putting it would be "gabardine is another type of worsted wool fabric and tweed is another type of woolen fabric?" I still think it's confusing to introduce two fabrics in a primer that are not mentioned elsewhere in the article.

 

[aaronag]

Sorry duplicate message

 

[double00]

well the quote kind of implies there is such a thing as woolen spun gabardine ( gab being a wool fabric ) but that's not really true , gabardine is categorically a worsted product . so the sentence is a clunker but that's ok .

as far as flannel it will be a softer cloth by virtue of a softer yarn ( either a more softly spun worsted preparation or something closer to a true woolen ) plus the optional napped finish . but you would probably not for instance see a very hard spun worsted employed in a flannel

 

[double00]

and it is , yeah , reasonable to ask what constitutes the essential nature of this or that in terms of textile product , but the answer is not easy : usually these terms of art are a recipe but sometimes a family of recipes , or sometimes even a specific product effect . and then there are cultural devices that become terms of art too . it's very much a local language .

I did look at the linked article , I'm not sure if op misquoted or if the copy got changed in any case it seems to be clarified . anyways there is a point later in the piece that suggests it would be more accurate to call worsted as 'combed' and woolen as 'uncombed' ... so op is not alone in the struggle and I deal with it too

 

[aaronag]

and it is , yeah , reasonable to ask what constitutes the essential nature of this or that in terms of textile product , but the answer is not easy : usually these terms of art are a recipe but sometimes a family of recipes , or sometimes even a specific product effect . and then there are cultural devices that become terms of art too . it's very much a local language .

I did look at the linked article , I'm not sure if op misquoted or if the copy got changed in any case it seems to be clarified . anyways there is a point later in the piece that suggests it would be more accurate to call worsted as 'combed' and woolen as 'uncombed' ... so op is not alone in the struggle and I deal with it too

I did shorten the quote, and while things are clearer for me, I'm still learning the ropes on all this. Currently I'm trying to get to the bottom of high twist and covert pants.

If you to recommend a trouser starter package, what would it be?

 

[double00]

I did shorten the quote, and while things are clearer for me, I'm still learning the ropes on all this. Currently I'm trying to get to the bottom of high twist and covert pants.

If you to recommend a trouser starter package, what would it be?

yeah I think the article got edited , it's better now .

i'm personally off of tailoring these days but I do think that piece has good suggestions especially worsted twills . idk where you are but the easiest and best way to learn about fabric is to get it in hand , if you are near a good fabric store like britex in SF or a good menswear store or tailor who can walk you through the options and let you handle things a bit you will learn quickly i think . some of the guys over in the unfunded liabilities thread will order cloth remotely and sometimes get surprised by a cloth's character or color or weight or whatever so if it's possible to shop in person i'd recommend that .

 

[breakaway01]

If you to recommend a trouser starter package, what would it be?

depends a lot on your climate and also on the kinds of outfits you wear. In the US Midwest I wear flannel trousers October-March. Would recommend something very different if you live in Florida.

 

[aaronag]

depends a lot on your climate and also on the kinds of outfits you wear. In the US Midwest I wear flannel trousers October-March. Would recommend something very different if you live in Florida.

Northeast, which back in the day I would have said was much the same as the Midwest, but these days I think I should have a good amount of tropical wool and linen.

 

[breakaway01]

I am a big fan of seasonal fabrics in climates like the NE.

Essential starter package for tailored wear:

Winter:
- light to mid-grey flannel, around 12-14 oz. Worsted or woolen is IMO a matter of personal preference. Worsted flannel will hold a crease better and looks a little dressier than woolen. Some people like charcoal or dark grey but I don't find it nearly as versatile as mid or even light grey.
- same but in a fawn or similar light brown color
- cavalry twill is also a good option (Holland and Sherry has some good examples in their Seasonal Classics book)

Summer
- high-twist or tropical wool in light grey, sand/light brown. I like Standeven Explorer but there are a number of options here including Draper's/VBC 4-ply, Fox Air, Finnmeresco. I am not a big fan of Fresco for odd trousers (look too suity to me).

Expanding to more casual fabrics, you also have whipcords and corduroys for the winter; linen in the summer.

 

[aaronag]

Thanks for the advice and leads. Any particular recommendations for wool flannel, worsted or otherwise?

 

[breakaway01]

for woolen flannel, Minnis flannel is quite heavy but has great variegation of color. Fox is also well regarded.

for worsted, I like Dugdale; Holland & Sherry and Fox also have a worsted flannel book but I haven't handled either in person. The Fox worsted flannel is fairly lightweight but it has its fans here.

 

[Andy57]

No.