Considering Johston & Murphey Cap-Toe - Good Call?

[chasingred]

Stuff on different types of leathers - corrected grain, cordovan, full grain leather, etc: http://putthison.com/post/308306580/...-been-thinking Look for shoes with blake stitching or goodyear welts. You can replace the soles on those kinds of shoes. Shoes with big pieces of rubber slapped on and glued to them aren't going to last you as long since you'll have to toss them out once the rubber wears thin. Not a good investment. You can tell if something is blake or goodyear welted by 1) reading these forums and asking when you need to; 2) seeing if there is stitching *under* the shoe (not on the sides, but actually underneath where the sole hits the floor when you walk); 3) asking the salesperson, who should know (if they don't, move on to another store). Also, watch this, it's worthwhile http://putthison.com/post/535994284/episode-2-shoes Incidentally, I just bought Ralph Lauren Horatio loafers for $55, Ferragamo Newland captoe oxfords for $130 (and they came with free shoe trees, which I needed); and a pair of RM Williams Craftsman Chelsea boots for $130. All those are better crafted than those J&Ms. Take some time to browse this forum (check the advanced search feature to find the type of shoe you want), and eBay. If you have the time, you'll get much better deals for the money you have.

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

Those look great, but based on what people here are saying, it may be worth spending $60 on an ebay pair of Park Avenues + $100 to get them resoled and refurbed and have a like-new $325 Allen Edmond shoe vs a $160 J&M shoe. Thoughts?

Just get a nearly new pair of AEs for $150. I've seen the Park Avenues go for about $150-170, and I think that's their best model.

The difference between a brand new shoe and one that has been worn 5 times is about a 50% difference. The difference between a shoe that has been worn 5 times and one that has been worn a year is much less of a discount. Just get the nearly new ones if you can. It's not just the sole you have to worry about but also the leather on the rest of the shoe, as well as whether you're going to get some foot fungus from wearing a pair of shoes that's been around for 5 years (which is basically how old a pair of AEs would have to be for you to need to resole them).

 

[Ahheck01]

Originally Posted by chasingred

Incidentally, I just bought Ralph Lauren Horatio loafers for $55, Ferragamo Newland captoe oxfords for $130 (and they came with free shoe trees, which I needed); and a pair of RM Williams Craftsman Chelsea boots for $130. All those are better crafted (and I think better looking) than what you're considering. Take some time to browse this forum (check the advanced search feature to find the type of shoe you want), and eBay. If you have the time, you'll get much better deals for the money you have.

This is where I get lost/overwhelmed. What makes the Ferragamo Newland oxfords better crafted than allen edmonds? Where would I find such a deal? Ebay makes sense, but is there a webpage that lists all the various black cap toe oxfords by price and rating on these forums so I don't have to weigh the opinions of thousands of people over the last several years to come to my own sporadically informed conclusion?

-Evan

 

[Xiaogou]

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

This is where I get lost/overwhelmed. What makes the Ferragamo Newland oxfords better crafted than allen edmonds? Where would I find such a deal? Ebay makes sense, but is there a webpage that lists all the various black cap toe oxfords by price and rating on these forums so I don't have to weigh the opinions of thousands of people over the last several years to come to my own sporadically informed conclusion?

-Evan

Great deals on Ferragamo's are few and far between. They are nice shoes but severly overpriced for what they are. The Tramezza line is the best one within the family.

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

This is where I get lost/overwhelmed. What makes the Ferragamo Newland oxfords better crafted than allen edmonds? Where would I find such a deal? Ebay makes sense, but is there a webpage that lists all the various black cap toe oxfords by price and rating on these forums so I don't have to weigh the opinions of thousands of people over the last several years to come to my own sporadically informed conclusion? -Evan
Simplified: 1. Buy full grain leather or shell cordovan. Full grain leather means no chemical treatments that look nice for now, but will look really bad later. Shell cordovan is leather from a horse's ass. It will last forever. Read the Put This On link I gave you 2. Find leather soled shoes. Watch that Put This On video I linked you. Blake stitched and goodyear are two ways leather can be put on the bottom of a shoe. Avoid things that are just all rubber on the bottom (though it can be rubber put onto a leather sole, but typically a shoe will show off that it's all leather; still, just look carefully to see if its actually a rubber sole or some piece of rubber - what we call vibrams or topsy - slapped onto some leather sole. Leather soles are good because you can resole your shoes, which means they last longer. 3. Buy brown, it's more versatile of a color for shoes 4. Learn how to take care of nice shoes. Buy shoe trees that fit into your shoe (shoe trees come in different sizes). This will help prevent the leather from getting ugly creases. Also buy leather conditioner, and either shoe polish cream or wax (or both if you want). Also buy a dauber and horse hair brush for polishing. Get an old rag. You now have everything you need to take care of nice shoes. Look at that Put This On video I linked you for an introduction, or read these forums. Use the search bar. 5. Aldens and AEs are nice, much better than much of the stuff out there, including the JMs you linked. However, I don't think they look as nice as many of the shoes made in England and Italy. Read the forums, find out some brands. It will only take you a few days. John Lobbs, Crockett and Jones, Edward Green, Ferragamo (mainline and Tramezza line, not Studio line), Santoni, Sutor, Trickers, Alfred Sargent, etc. People here love brogues. Know that most people outside of these niche subcultures will not like brogues, however. Everything else said on the forum is generally universally true, however. 6. Make up your mind about how much money and time you want to spend. Figure how how great of a shoe you want. If you don't care, and want to spend minimal time and money, there is something for that. If you do care, then you ahve to spend a lot of time or money - one or the other, and you should spend whichever you have most. I spend a lot of time and little money, because I have none of the latter and a lot of the first. That means I get the mid range stuff (Ferragamos, Ralph Lauren made in Italy or England lines, and RM Williams) for really cheap. These each are around $300-$500 retail, but I pay $50-100. 7. Buy two pairs of shoes. You don't want to wear the same pair everyday. Your shoes need a day of rest after a day's worth of work.

 

[Xiaogou]

Originally Posted by chasingred

Simplified:

1. Buy full grain leather or shell cordovan. Full grain leather means no chemical treatments that look nice for now, but will look really bad later. Shell cordovan is leather from a horse's ass. It will last forever. Read the Put This On link I gave you

2. Find leather soled shoes. Watch that Put This On video I linked you. Blake stitched and goodyear are two ways leather can be put on the bottom of a shoe. Avoid things that are just all rubber on the bottom (though it can be rubber put onto a rubber sole, but typically a shoe will show off that it's all leather; still, just look carefully to see if its actually a rubber sole or some piece of rubber - what we call vibrams or topsy - slapped onto some leather sole. This is good because you can resole your shoes.

3. Buy brown, it's more versatile of a color for shoes

4. Learn how to take care of nice shoes. Buy shoe trees that fit into your shoe (shoe trees come in different sizes). This will help prevent the leather from getting ugly creases. Also buy leather conditioner, and either shoe polish cream or wax (or both if you want). Also buy a dauber and horse hair brush for polishing. Get an old rag. You now have everything you need to take care of nice shoes. Look at that Put This On video I linked you for an introduction, or read these forums. Use the search bar.

5. Aldens and AEs are nice, much better than much of the stuff out there, including the JMs you linked. However, I don't think they look as nice as many of the shoes made in England and Italy. Read the forums, find out some brands. It will only take you a few days. John Lobbs, Crockett and Jones, Edward Green, Ferragamo (mainline and Tramezza line, not Studio line), Santoni, Sutor, Trickers, Alfred Sargent, etc. People here love brogues. Know that most people outside of these niche subcultures will like brogues, however. Everything else said on the forum is generally universally true, however.

6. Make up your mind about how much money and time you want to spend. Figure how how great of a shoe you want. If you don't care, and want to spend minimal time and money, there is something for that. If you do care, then you ahve to spend a lot of time or money. I spend a lot of time and little money, mostly because I have none of the latter. That means I get the mid range stuff (Ferragamos, Ralph Lauren made in Italy or England lines, and RM Williams) for really cheap.

Great advice all the way around. In regards to point 3, buy at least one pair of black cap-toe oxford shoes(Park Avenue).

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

How would I save $50 by buying a shoe that costs $200 more?

Because buying smart means doing a ratio calculation of quality/ price, and choosing the higher value. You'll spend 50 more in price for AE, but your quality number will shoot way up. Last longer, look better over time, etc.

 

[chasingred]

Also, check Bluefly, Yoox, Sierra Trading Post, and Gilt (go to http://www.gilt.com/invite/beanpies to be invited) for deals. Go to Pediwear, Leather Soul, and Plal to look at really nice shoes. Also check Styleforum sale threads (use the advanced search feature) and eBay to find deals.

Look for these lines: crockett and jones, alden, allen edmonds, santoni, sassetti, ferragamo, bruno, edward green (good luck finding these on the cheap though), john lobb (even more luck to you on this one), loake, trickers, grenson, alfred sargent, rider boot company, peal, church's, vass, cheaney

Lastly, read this: http://reviews.ebay.com/A-Gentlemans...00000008530117

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

Good lord - searching completed listings on ebay, Park Avenues sell used for 60-120 a pair!

What do I need to be watching out for when looking to pick up a pair of these? Again, I'm relatively new to the quality shoe scene, so I don't have a clue what to look for. I can probably get these resoled in the next 3 months, so given that fact, what key elements should I look for, and look to avoid in ebay used park avenues?

Thanks so much, gentlemen! Your help is deeply appreciated!

-Evan

http://putthison.com/post/598598076/...tsy-asks-where

 

[WhateverYouLike]

There are a bunch of other black captoes from AE....not really sure why it's the only one people ever consider. Soho, 5th ave, + Evanston would do the job just fine (preferable, IMO).

 

[magogian12345]

amazon.com sometimes has great deals on Allen Edmonds shoes.

 

[JamesX]

What I don't like about 5th Avenue is the Baroque on the Toe Cap. Aside from that there are no real difference between the two.

 

[Xiaogou]

Originally Posted by chasingred

Lastly, read this: http://reviews.ebay.com/A-Gentlemans...00000008530117

Great write-up.

 

[ArthurVandalay]

Originally Posted by Xiaogou

Great write-up.


Yea, if you're willing to completely ignore Rule #8.

 

[Ahheck01]

Originally Posted by ArthurVandalay

Yea, if you're willing to completely ignore Rule #8.

Which is what?