Friday WAYWRN Challenge: CM does SWD.

So excited for this



cyc wid it said:

Just a quick observation after browsing some WAYWRN casual fits:

A majority of CM tends to view casual clothing as an afterthought much like a majority of SW&D views suiting (and more formal wear) as an afterthought. Obviously there are exceptions. Also, the casual spectrum on this side of the forum is very narrow. You pretty much get fits that range from B-reel shots of a J. Press/Brooks catalog to outlet Polo mishmash fits with the occasional wannabe Pitti/GQ. There's hardly even workwear/outdoorsy type fits. I don't see any designer stuff. It's also very odd that people who obsess over degrees of sleeve pitch in suiting or the warmth (or lack thereof) of a certain shade of blue can't figure out how to buy a pair of jeans that fit decently. At the bare minimum, I would think that translating some of the same ideas that ground normal CM fits to more casual looks should produce something inoffensive.

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By whose standards?

People who enjoy denim rather than treating it as a default casual wear item without putting much thought into it. (Disclaimer: there are many in SW&D who refuse to wear denim). It's not even a matter of slim vs traditional jeans as one can look good doing either. No more on sale Levi's with boat shoes and loafers please.

There's a difference between treating denim as "default casual" and preferring a fit outside of the SWD norms.

How to do full cut denim properly: workwear + outdoorsy / Japanese streetwear.

How not to do full cut denim: swallowing up suede tassel loafers and boat shoes (with or without cuffs)

^ this is not "classic" or "timeless" or what Steve McQueen would have wanted (5). If you're going for an "Americana" type look, then commit to it. A random combination of turtleneck + dad jeans + boots don't make a complete look any more than throwing together random suit separates that happen to be the same color.

If the break on a pair of slacks is analyzed down to the millimeter, how does the hem size on a pair of jeans get overlooked? Or the wash? Or the cuff proportions?

SW&D appreciates slim and traditional cut looks... the Alden thread is probably not a good place to look for examples. Most of the people there do not venture out beyond that particular thread and probably are CM types. Shoreman, Zissou, MoK and plenty of others run with more of the traditional cut.

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]So, since I'm calling the shots this week:

Only one fit per poster will be included in the poll.
It doesn't have to be from this week, as I know that I'd rather see lots of good fits than something that's hastily thrown together.

I'm totally with Cyc on this. I am also going to enter, I'm just not sure if I am going to go with the workwear or something a little more unusual. No full marsupial, don't worry...



cyc wid it said:

How to do full cut denim properly: workwear + outdoorsy / Japanese streetwear.

How not to do full cut denim: swallowing up suede tassel loafers and boat shoes (with or without cuffs)

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Thanks but no thanks.

Elegantly Wasted said:

Momotaro:



Studio D'Artisan:



Ships:



Uniqlo:




Thanks but no thanks.

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You're not making yourself look clever here with some ham-fisted googling. Uniqlo is basically the Japanese Gap (but better quality and image) and Ships is a mid-range CM-type men's store. Not streetwear by any stretch of the imagination. And Momotaro and Studio d'Artisan are small workwear manufacturers who both make fantastic jeans in a variety of fits.

Those aren't good examples and you probably don't want to play the "let's find bad examples to refute this argument" game... it's counter productive and quite frankly, you don't have to leave the side to find plenty of fodder.

Your post pretty much illustrates the problem that CM has when it comes to SW&D. It doesn't take much research to realize that what you posted has nothing to do with Japanese streetwear. They are Japanese + they are probably on a street != streetwear.

There are jeans involved! Must be streetwear! I find it confusing! Must be fashion!

If we got gdl or some other respected CM member to post one of the many videos documenting Momotaro's extensive jean production process, you guys would suddenly be impressed. See: Buttero, Inis Meian, Esemplare and plenty of other brands you willfully choose to ignore unless someone you "trust" points them out to you.

"But it's just casual wear, what's the point? I don't want to spend on that because I don't see the value in it."
That's the equivalent of someone on SW&D buying a Joseph A. Bank suit because they only wear a suit once in a blue moon and they don't see what the big deal is. A suit is a suit right?

Maybe it's because CM is more easily quantifiable? For the most part, there's a set of rules you can follow to not look terrible. When some random poster from SW&D asks/researches information on suiting, you can generally find well defined guidelines of where to start. Sure, even within the confines of suiting there's plenty of variance, but if you just want some basic understanding you can find various regurgitated lists. No such formula exists for SW&D. I don't mean this in a snobby way (I'm neither an expert nor some supremely popular poster from SW&D), but a majority of CM people probably have no idea what SW&D actually is. See: Elegantly Wasted's post.



FlyingMonkey said:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

You're not making yourself look clever here with some ham-fisted googling. Uniqlo is basically the Japanese Gap (but better quality and image) and Ships is a mid-range CM-type men's store. Not streetwear by any stretch of the imagination. And Momotaro and Studio d'Artisan are small workwear manufacturers who both make fantastic jeans in a variety of fits.

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Exactly, those four cover a wide spectrum of designs. What else do you want, a full compendium of Japanese male clothing?

cyc wid it said:

Those aren't good examples and you probably don't want to play the "let's find bad examples to refute this argument" game... it's counter productive and quite frankly, you don't have to leave the side to find plenty of fodder.

Your post pretty much illustrates the problem that CM has when it comes to SW&D. It doesn't take much research to realize that what you posted has nothing to do with Japanese streetwear. They are Japanese + they are probably on a street != streetwear.

There are jeans involved! Must be streetwear! I find it confusing! Must be fashion!

If we got gdl or some other respected CM member to post one of the many videos documenting Momotaro's extensive jean production process, you guys would suddenly be impressed. See: Buttero, Inis Meian, Esemplare and plenty of other brands you willfully choose to ignore unless someone you "trust" points them out to you.

Maybe it's because CM is more easily quantifiable? For the most part, there's a set of rules you can follow to not look terrible. When some random poster from SW&D asks/researches information on suiting, you can generally find well defined guidelines of where to start. Sure, even within the confines of suiting there's plenty of variance, but if you just want some basic understanding you can find various regurgitated lists. No such formula exists for SW&D. I don't mean this in a snobby way (I'm neither an expert nor some supremely popular poster from SW&D), but a majority of CM people probably have no idea what SW&D actually is.

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cyc wid it, I think I see it now. "streetwear" is to street + wear like "football" is
I will "trust" you if you post or link to some of those wonders you mention. Just don't take as a given my knowledge of your lingo.



Note: this will be my last post about it in this thread. My apologies to EFV for creating noise.

Most Momotaro videos are pretty low res. Here's an overview video.

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

Here's a video of a brand carried by Self Edge. Roy has custom fabric made for him at cone mills.

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]


This type of information isn't exactly difficult to find.

You're just purposely being obtuse if you think what you linked is an accurate representation of Japanese streetwear.

Repro jeans and Japanese streetwear are just a small segment of what makes up SW&D. Is Saville Row British style tailoring the only thing that defines CM?

I hope I'm being trolled. *ETA* if not, maybe this will be a good opportunity for people to see some new things. Lots of people frequent both sides of the forum and enjoy it - I find them both to be interesting and I wish more people did as well. You don't have to dive in and buy a whole new wardrobe either way, but just read with an open mind. Everyone nerds out over different things and it's helpful to see why. It doesn't mean you have to be as enthusiastic about it, whether it's raw silk ties, antiqued shoes, Japanese denim, runway samples, whatever. Kindofyoung's suggestion that people check out SW&D's WAYWT for looks to emulate might be a little ambitious for the purposes of this contest, but it's a good idea in terms of overall scope. It's probably not as varied as it could be lately, but there's still a lot to see. There are also editorial threads for professionally styled looks and runway threads. Maybe you have no interest at all in checking it out - that's fine too. If that's the case, how can you reject the opinions of the other side wholesale? In Stitches participates (mostly as CM), but I think he's found SW&D to be interesting even as an observer.

I hope someone from CM does full Aitor Thourp.

So what happens when a regular from SW&D enters? I mean, TTO and gdl are CM daywalkers; Parker is one of their daywalkers (as is Moo, I suppose). But what if artishard rolls up in here and drops something serious?



Elegantly Wasted said:

Note: this will be my last post about it in this thread. My apologies to EFV for creating noise.

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I like noise & I like discussions. I like fit pics even more though.