Houses with 'No Shoe' Rules



StephenHero said:

This issue is fascinating. Wasn't there a thread on it a couple years back that got out of hand?

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That was probably my thread which I posted after being annoyed at being made to take my shoes off one summer by someone whose own feet (and the inside of their flipflops) were blackened by walking around barefoot to the point where I would prefer to lick the bottom of my shoe than to touch their foot with my tongue. The kicker is that I was paying rent for the use of this living room...

I think it soon turned into a parade of idiots doing the same "I would never again speak to someone who insisted I remove my shoes" crap that this thread has turned into. Everybody knows that the only proper response is to comply and go post your annoyance on SF.

I can at least say that while we still lived there, shoes were allowed to stay on for parties



StephenHero said:

If I invite you over, I assume you're responsible enough to not **** my home up and that you can comprehend whether your shoes are dirty or not.

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While I'd have expressed myself differently, I appreciate this resonse.

kasakka said:

I wouldn't want a guest to have shoes on and walk around my living room or bedroom but it's ok to have shoes on and wait near the front door if we're going out in a few minutes.

It pretty much comes to common sense:

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I appreciate this one as written.

I would think this is going to differ a lot based on location.

Can't we at least all agree that a party of sorts is going to be mostly a "shoes on" event, while a more casual gathering may or may not (depending on the host) be a "shoes off" event?



kasakka said:

Here in Finland no shoes inside the house is also a norm and no slippers.

I really don't see why anyone would want it otherwise. Let's see: dragging whatever dirt you walked into on the street (and no, it does not all come off just by wiping your shoes at the doormat) or getting comfortable and walking without shoes, either in socks or without them, when inside. I know which one I'd pick every single time. It also doesn't matter if you are wearing a tuxedo, you don't wear shoes at someone's home. Any other place you'd most likely wear them.

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+1

I spend most of my time in London and it is second nature for me, and most people I know, to instinctively remove our shoes when entering someone's house. The vast majority of households I know remove their shoes before walking around the house (and to be honest, the thought of wearing outdoor shoes around the house seems to me to be a little bit disgusting). I know floors are not 100% clean, but why would you want to exacerbate the problem by making them even more dirty (particularly when it can be so easily avoided by removing shoes). For example, most men will use a public toilet at some point during the day (e.g. at work) - without going into too much detail, if you are using a urinal, the chances are you are standing in some residual urine from people who have been using that urinal before you/throughout the day. Why would you then want to wear the same shoes around the house, spreading that same urine wherever you walk?

JLibourel said:

If I went to a party and were told to take off my shoes (unless I had been informed it was a "sock hop"--if they still have those things), I would turn right around, go my way and cross those people off my social list...if my hosts were Americans, irrespective of ethnic background, and asked me to take off my shoes, they could go to Hell as far as I am concerned.

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I've been surprised by those people who have said they find it rude to be asked to remove their shoes at someone elses house, particulary the above post. Somone should go to hell simply because they prefer for shoes not to be worn around their house? What is it that is so offensive about their request?

The inconvenience of having to remove/put on your shoes? - this literally takes a matter of seconds.

The fact that your feet/socks may get dirty? - so you don't want your feet/socks to get dirty (which can be easily cleaned) but it is acceptable to get someone else's floor dirty with your shoes (which would take much longer and be more difficult to clean).

The fact that a host should be hospitable and make their guests feel welcome and comfortable? - this works both ways and is no more important than a guest's obligation to respect the requests and wishes of a homeowner (particularly where such requests are not difficult to comply with and where there is a perfectly sensible reason behind them).

My wife and I take off our shoes at the front door. We keep a basket of new unworn slippers near the door for guests (they are mostly free slippers we have collected during air travel). I didn't do this before I met her, but now I can't imagine any other way.

Also, is there anything worse than coming to an apartment where people keep an ugly pile of shoes *outside* their door?

If I lived above someone like this and had to walk past some ugly pile of 14 shoes sitting on the landing every time I went upstairs to my apartment, I'd probably have to remind either the tennant or the landlord that personal belongings and $9.95 shoe rack furniture don't belong in the common areas of the building.

Oh - and for all of the germ o phobes out there -

Wall to wall carpeting is the filfthiest stuff on earth. No amount of steaming/cleaning can actually remove the dirt that has settled into the backing and padding. Even fabulously maintained carpet is filfthy underneath the backing. And the potential for biological action in wall to wall carpet is quite high.

Area rugs may be rolled up, taken out and cleaned - thus if maintained are far cleaner.

Oh - and as far as the germs on things outside which you might track into your home you might want to understand more about the germ killing power of sunlight (UV).

Much of the visible 'dirt' from outdoors which has actually been exposed to UV light is far less microbially active than your 'clean' carpets indoors. Just the fact that you can or cannot see dirt has little bearing on the actual microbial activity happening on an object.

Sleep Well !!!!!!!!!



lasbar said:

Horses for courses....

I will never get upset if somebody ask me to remove my shoes...

You have to respect people's house...

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This. Sure, I prefer to keep my shoes on, but it's their house.

cptjeff said:

So the host is now more important than the guest? Good to know. Here I was thinking that hospitality demanded that the guest take precedence.
...
Y'all need to get over yourselves. Homes get soiled. Like it or not. Somebody coming into your house and putting a normal amount of wear on your furniture is not rude in the slightest. You being an ass about your carpet is.

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That said, I'd never ask anyone to remove their shoes in my place. I hate fussiness.

otc said:

That was probably my thread which I posted after being annoyed at being made to take my shoes off one summer by someone whose own feet (and the inside of their flipflops) were blackened by walking around barefoot to the point where I would prefer to lick the bottom of my shoe than to touch their foot with my tongue. The kicker is that I was paying rent for the use of this living room...

I think it soon turned into a parade of idiots doing the same "I would never again speak to someone who insisted I remove my shoes" crap that this thread has turned into. Everybody knows that the only proper response is to comply and go post your annoyance on SF.

I can at least say that while we still lived there, shoes were allowed to stay on for parties

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Mostly the other way around from where I'm sitting on the couch without my shoes.



Quote: Have you ever taken a piss standing up without your pants on...



CDFS said:

Mostly the other way around from where I'm sitting on the couch without my shoes.



Have you ever taken a piss standing up without your pants on...

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I refuse to allow people who have urinated since putting their pants on to use my furniture--don't people know what catheters are for? Those little droplets splash back everywhere!

otc said:

CDFS said:

Mostly the other way around from where I'm sitting on the couch without my shoes.



Have you ever taken a piss standing up without your pants on...

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I refuse to allow people who have urinated since putting their pants on to use my furniture--don't people know what catheters are for? Those little droplets splash back everywhere!

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it would be rude to ask your guest to install a catheter, but it would be ruder to refuse.



imatlas said:

it would be rude to ask your guest to install a catheter, but it would be ruder to refuse.

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remind me not to accept any invitations to your house!!!!!

This is still going on?

Gdot said:

I think as hosts it is important to make your guests feel as welcome as possible - and that graciousness puts the guest's comfort above the mere maintenance of 'things'.

But I also think there is a distinction between frequent guests who might be very close to you and occasional guests who are in your home only once for a **********tail party or only occasionally for a dinner etc. etc.

In other words - if you have a no shoes policy in your home then I think it's fine to make it known to those who visit your home frequently. But conversely it's just rude in my mind to make infrequent guests abide by such rules. If whatever you have on your floors is so precious to you that you can't abide it taking a little dirt or a spill then either roll it up before you have the event or don't entertain people in your home.

I for one, find it a little off putting to be made to feel like the host's rugs are more important to them than I am.

I do respect that in some locales and cultures shoes off inside is the norm and in that case I'm in full support of it - as guests would have reason to expect to follow local customs.

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This.

juniper said:

On the shoes-off thing, I'm happy to accept people of other cultures or nationalities doing it, but when someone of my culture and geography does it, it's almost inevitably turns out that they're bland, parochial ***** who you wouldn't want to spend time with anyway. I spit on their Kinkades.

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I am not sure that I really agree with this but it is so funny that I want to.

Also, when someone "asks" you to take your shoes off, it's not a question, even if it's phrased as one. Especially if phrased in holier-than-thou language implying that they're better than you ("In /this/ house, we take our shoes off!"). It ***** up the guest-host relationship within five seconds of getting through the door. Nice.

I don't tell guests what to do in my house. If they treat it like ****, they don't come back. Unless they're funny or otherwise good value, in which case anything goes. The idea of explaining "house rules" to a guest is perhaps one of the tackiest things ever.

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Exactly correct and perfectly put.

Dib said:

I spend most of my time in London and it is second nature for me, and most people I know, to instinctively remove our shoes when entering someone's house. The vast majority of households I know remove their shoes before walking around the house (and to be honest, the thought of wearing outdoor shoes around the house seems to me to be a little bit disgusting).

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This has certainly not been my experience. Do you live in an ethnic enclave?

Let's bottom line this.

If you live in a part of the world where this is a strongly-established custom, fine. When I visit that part of the world, I draw no negative inferences from the request to remove my shoes. My experience, as I said, is that very often, there is a polite tug-of-war wherein I insist on respecting local custom and my host urges me not to. I know this is not everyone's experience. I usually am visiting people with a lot of multi-cultural experience, perhaps that explains it.

If you grew up with a really strong cultural tradition of removing shoes but now live somewhere it is not customary, I may give you a pass as well. But, while I originally posted the medical-shoe-booty thing as a joke, I am now thinking that it is the perfect and almost charming solution in this case. The host's deep-seated cultural instincts are respected and the guest isn't made uncomfortable.

BTW, the snow boot thing is a red herring. Yeah, when I lived in places with miserable winters, I didn't wear my Sorels in the house. I didn't wear them at work, either. If I were wearing snow boots, I always had a pair of shoes to change into. I am having real trouble with the idea that people on SF are contemplating wading through slush in their EGs. Have you people not heard of Tingleys?

So that leaves the case where people have just decided to make everyone entering their house remove their shoes to protect the carpets. As it is their house, they are free to do so, of course. But they should consider that it marks them as boorish in that they place a higher premium on things than people. Miss Manners, as always, has the definitive word here,

Failing to take off one's shoes when arriving at a dinner party in Japan would show a lack of respect for the hosts, while seating guests with their backs to the most decorative part of the room is understood to honor them by having these objects serve as their background. But taking off one's shoes upon arriving at an American dinner party would be a demonstration of disrespect, while an American host who asks guests to remove their shoes in order to preserve the cleanliness of the carpet is disrespectful to the guests, by showing more honor to his possessions than to them.

So go ahead and insist all you want. Thunder on about germs and dirt and dog poo. The unalterable fact is that in a region where there is no cultural imperative to do so, you are being rude by asking your guests to remove their shoes. If you can live with that, I guess everyone else can, too.



cptjeff said:

I generally hate people who are so afraid of ruining things that they can't bear to use them. People who make you afraid to walk around in a house qualify as assholes, IMO. It's supposed to be a place to live in. If you can't relax there, what's the ******* point?

I'll remove shoes if you ask me to, but unless you're from an asian culture, I consider it a bit of a rude request. The way I was raised, you make an effort for guests- which means cleaning up, even if not to an absurd degree, and understanding that the house will need to be cleaned after any party. Expecting your home to stay pristine all of the time is moronic, and enforcing that on others is rude.

Cleaning is a fact of life. Germs aren't as horrible as you think they are. Come to terms with those, and your life will be much less stressful, and your guests will like you more.

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I’m noticing a theme throughout many of these posts. It seems Southerners are much less concerned then Northerners and/or foreigners about shoe removal in houses.

Some hypotheses:
1.Northern States which have a larger influx of inclement “dirty” weather and higher concentrations of immigrants more deeply focus this cultural norm.
2.Southern hospitality places the position of the guest above the host.
3.Being in a hotter climate and being less prone to wear socks, Southerners understand that removing shoes is not always a pleasant experience for bystanders.

Living in the South and having visited several other Southern States, I will share what others will think of you as in several situations:

-If as a host you instruct your guests to remove their shoes before entering your house your request would be complied with, but you would have offended your guests unless you had a very good explanation or were obviously of Asian heritage. Furthermore if this occurred during a party event several people would leave after a short period of time.
(This rule does not apply to mothers addressing their son’s young friends under the age of twelve, because they are too young to know better. Adults are expected to be clean and would never think of entering a house in a soiled condition.)

-If as a host you greeted and entertained guests barefoot, you would be seen at best as a novelty.

-As a guest, if you entered someone’s home and immediately removed your shoes, you would be seen as an oddity. It would be similar to what how I expect Asians react when an American goes inside with their shoes donned or showing up in a t-shirt and shorts to.

-Lastly, if you threw a black tie party and indicated that shoe removal was necessary you would be committing a deadly social offense and could expect to lose some friends. (Pretty much can not imagine someone actually demanding this though.)

Don't accept an invitation to visit and tell them why or, if they spring it upon you, turn on your heel and leave directly.