The perfect shirt: English (Jermyn Street/Saville Row) vs Italian (Naples) bespoke

I have been using bespoke shirts for years and I am actually quite happy with the quality it got from my tailors in London and also in Asia. However, I am never stopped looking for the "perfect shirt".

I have recently overheard a conversation of a group of very well dressed middle aged man at an exclusive event. They were discussing differences in the quality of bespoke shirts between famous English shirtmakers / tailors (some have a shop at the Savile Row or Jermyn Street) and Italian bespoke shirts makers. They seemed to agree that the best quality shirts can not be found in London anymore as probably none of the famous shirtmakers actually sew the shirts by hand anymore. "Handmade" in this context means that shirts are made by hand with a sewing machine... This is apparently quite different in Italy, particularly in Naples. The shirtmakers there still take the time to make the whole shirt by hand, this results (if it is quality craftsmanship) in superior shirts. Famous brand include Borelli, Kiton or Finamore.

Would you agree with their opinion? Does anyone have bespoke shirts from both places and can give some feedback to the quality differences? Or would you know a different place / brand where I could get the perfect shirt?

Thanks for the input...

i prefer british shirts, but italian trousers

I haven't done Italian bespoke, but I like Charvet better than T&A or H&K.

Picca,

This has been discussed on this forum a zillion times. Please use search function to find.

If the brands these two gentlemen mentioned are Borelli, Kiton or Finamore, then they are uninformed on Italian bespoke. All three are RTW and MTM shops.

Also, "shirts are made by hand with a sewing machine" is exactly how English bespoke shirtmakers operate.

Andrey

Why English shirts?

Originally Posted by andreyb2

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Picca,

This has been discussed on this forum a zillion times. Please use search function to find.

If the brands these two gentlemen mentioned are Borelli, Kiton or Finamore, then they are uninformed on Italian bespoke. All three are RTW and MTM shops.

Andrey

I tried to find clear information on the topic but I didn't. There seem to be no proper comparison between English and Italian bespoke shirts...

Apparently, these gentleman seemed to believe that particularly Borelli does also do bespoke and not only RTW and MTM.

Originally Posted by andreyb2

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Also, "shirts are made by hand with a sewing machine" is exactly how English bespoke shirtmakers operate.

Andrey

Yes, I know and I wrote that the English one operates this way. However, as mentioned this is apparently different with some Italian bespoke shirtmakers....

I'm not sure what the big deal is with hand sewn shirts as opposed to machine sewn.
Surely it is more important

A) How the shirts fit you
and
B) Which shirts use better looking/feeling/wearing fabrics.

As I understand it there is no reason why a hand stitched Borrelli shirt is any 'better made' than a machine stitched Charvet. It is more a matter of personal preference.

Originally Posted by andreyb2

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Picca,

This has been discussed on this forum a zillion times. Please use search function to find.

If the brands these two gentlemen mentioned are Borelli, Kiton or Finamore, then they are uninformed on Italian bespoke. All three are RTW and MTM shops.

Yes, they do make ready-to-wear shirts, but they also do bespoke shirts.

Originally Posted by andreyb2

Click to expand...

Also, "shirts are made by hand with a sewing machine" is exactly how English bespoke shirtmakers operate.

Andrey

I think that was precisely the point that Picca was making - English shirtmakers use machines controlled by hands to sew their shirts, whereas Borrelli (for example) shirts are made by hand, without machines (well, at least not as much as English makers such as H&K, T&A etc).

I've got both and whilst I like the "luxury" factor of knowing that someone hand-stitched my shirt, I also very much like my H&K and Charvet shirts.

Ultimately, it comes down to the style that you like, and to the fit of the shirt.
If you can get what you want from Borrelli etc, then that it wonderful.
If, however, you prefer a different style, then try Charvet or an English maker.

A. English shirts

1. Machine made. No hand sewing.

2. Tend to have higher and firmer collars.

3. Known for bold patterns. I would say that this is the hallmark of an English shirt.

4. Since they are machine sewn, the shirts can be washed by machine. They are not as delicate as the Italian, handmade shirt.


B. Neopolitan Shirts

1. Hand sewing at buttonholes, shoulder, collar, gusset, and placket. Handsewn buttons (the three stitch or chicken stitch). Some shirts, such as Kiton, even have hand sewn hems.

2. Tend of have softer interlinings at collar and cuffs. The collar may not be as prominent.

3. The fabrics are not as important as the handwork. The Italians do not go in for the wild and bold patterns of the English. The handwork is more important than the choice of fabric.

4. The shirts are delicate. The armhole can unravel and may need by be resewn. The other hand stitching may come undone in washing. Machine washing is a gamble.

East Hampton, New York

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Mark Seitelman. Very interesting insights...

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

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4. The shirts are delicate. The armhole can unravel and may need by be resewn. The other hand stitching may come undone in washing. Machine washing is a gamble.

Do you know this for a fact, or are you just guessing? None of my MTM Borrelli shirts or bespoke Anna Matuozzo shirts have unraveled at the armhole and none of the other hand stitching has come undone. I machine wash them regularly.

I own very bold hand made Italian shirts that have not unravelled int the wash. In fact more bold than any of my British shirts.

To suggest that one bespoke shirtmaking tradition's shirtings are on the whole bolder than another is a fallacy, surely. A shirting's colour is a matter of personal taste, whereas any discussion of bespoke quality concerns construction.

Originally Posted by medwards

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East Hampton, New York

Yes, he will definitely tell you his are THE best anywhere. So the answer is ... neither English nor Italian ... but American.

Disclaimer: I am not one of his shirt customers. To date I have purchased socks only. My shirtmaker is English.