conservative business dress WAYWRN: An Experiment

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Dormeuil Scottie Derby

This is the only Dormeuil book I like - some great fabrics in there.

I'm guessing that coat is from NSM?

Originally Posted by edmorel

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here is an example of the good/bad that I was just talking about. I really like this shirt collar on Mike, the points are long enough and the spread wide, but not overly so. It frames his face/tie/suit lapels perfectly and it "tames" his wide shoulders a bit. On the bad sad, I would not wear the pin striped suit, striped shirt and that gorgeous, absolutely beautiful, magnificent, out of this world, kick ass, unlined striped 6 fold tie all in the same outfit. I know the patterns of different scales rule, but I think that most of the time, a patterned suit will be better served by a solid shirt. Also, here is an instance where I would prefer no square as the fit of the items is very good, and I feel the square distracts a bit from that.

BTW, what is the deal with people in this threak wearing these gunboats with their suits

I appreciate the feedback, Ed.

Personally, I think it all works and looks good to my eye. But, I see your points and I note them for the future.

I did make sure the scales of the stripes were all different. However, had there been a solid blue Borrelli in this color hanging in my closet, I would have chosen it.

With that said, there are real world considerations at work here, beyond simply what looks good with what.

I first chose this suit to wear today.

I then chose the awesome "Panta unlined 6 fold" tie.

Then, I needed a shirt. This shirt was chosen because of the collar, the slimness of the fit, the lightness of fabric (which this suit tends to wear better with) and the pale blue which would work with the tie. A thicker, larger fitting shirt in a solid was not chosen because it does not wear as well with this suit. Nor was the darker solid blue Borrelli because it is a fuller cut.

As far as the square, I always wear a square. I just don't feel right without it and frankly it looks unfinished to me.

Mike

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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This is the only Dormeuil book I like - some great fabrics in there.

I'm guessing that coat is from NSM?
It's a nice book and this coat made me realize that a lot of the biases we have here against certain mills are unfounded. Really great cloth.

Yes, that's my only coat from NSM.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Dormeuil Scottie Derby



Will have a look through it next time I'm at the tailors; thanks.

Originally Posted by Ich_Dien

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I like it MoK. Good matching on those socks.

Thank you - I suspect they might border a bit much on the 'fun socks' for some

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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MOK, as you know, I appreciate the English sensibility, and I hope you won't tone it down too much. This is a tough thread, in that it requires both daring and restraint. Sometimes we may fall on the wrong side of the line, and I hope any necessary (and hopefully gentle) course corrections won't strip the the thread of its regional flavors. In this case, I've enjoyed your responses about the acceptability of certain items in UK workplaces.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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That said, let me get on with the nitpicking. Because I know you're a good sport and open to feedback, I'm going to single you out for what is a widespread occurence on the forum: the lonely pocket square. In today's ensemble, the dominant colors are very cool, yet the pocket square is, in stark contrast, very warm and bright. It strikes me as an eyegrabbing contrast, and if I end up looking at a square, that square is not, IMO, a good fit for the fit. There's widespread concern here, and rightly so, that squares shouldn't be too matchy, but to my eye, the opposite is no better. The square ought to match the general tone and color palatte of everything else. But often they're dark when everything else is light, warm when everything else is cool, effusive when everything else is somber, or some other sharp contrast I find jarring. They end up being islands unto themselves.

I think sometimes people pick squares based on secondary colors in both the square and the outfit, to avoid being matchy, and the dominant colors of both end up too disparate. Or something.
Admittedly, this is a venial sin, but such is the nature of the thread. It's something I've struggled with myself, so if anyone has thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them.

At least my posts have some value even if they're as a bad example (I alway's wanted to be a bad example, but I'd have prefered to have been the sort that mother's warn their daughters of...)

I've put the key bit in bold, as that's exactly what I did... In real life the square has pretty much the same greyscale tonal value as the shirt, but I agree the cool/warm colours do fight. I should probably have gone with my other choice (burgundy based paisley).

Originally Posted by gdl203

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NCBD today - welcoming the few sunrays that decided to show up

Nice sportscoat, but I thought I was the only one here who had the audacity to wear suede brogued monks

Originally Posted by oldog/oldtrix

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[/SPOILER]
I like the colour of the tie but not the specific pattern. I'm possibly in the minority in liking those Barker Blacks.

Originally Posted by MBreinin

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I quite like the stripes on stripes, for what that's worth. I don't like the white PS, but can't suggest a good alternative.

Originally Posted by luftvier

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Just another day. My spin on conservative business dress, though I think Manton will deduct conservative business dress points for the tie as too gaudy (John Comfort madder-ish), and the PS is a little wild in the detail shot. Also, my left shirtsleeve is showing too much in the photo, though this is a result of running into place for the timer more than anything else.

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Holdfast

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I'm certain that at least some of you are posting slightly tongue-in-cheek at least some of the time, but the thought that a fair chunk is serious just amps up the entertainment value of the meta-story of the thread.

This threak is going to fold in on itself and will create a wormhole.

Originally Posted by elgreco

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This threak is going to fold in on itself and will create a wormhole.

That's more acceptable than a blackhole for daytime posting.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I also maintain that there is no outfit that does not benefit from white linen.
On this point I disagree (and you can't always be right, surely ).

White squares work well whenever there is a visually prominent amount of white in the shirt (be that, ground, stripes, contrast collar whatever). Paired with a solid colour shirt you get the problem Doc has already outlined 'a visually floating pocket square', it needs reasonably strong white in the shirt to ground it, otherwise the starkness of the white dominates as much as any bold colour.

Perhaps I read Hardy Amies at too impressionable an age, but amongst much that I disagree with him on, it is one point of view I share.

Originally Posted by CaymanS

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Today's suit. The shirt is from this batch (http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=227310)

I like the colour of the shoes, but not the shape. I have no problem with the trouser pairing.

Originally Posted by 0b5cur1ty

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Security guard has to be conservative business dress, right?

I like the dot knit tie, but I'm not sure others would agree.

I don't think so. I wear white linen all the time. The trick is just not to show so much square. The majority of SF posters consistently show too much.

I am not on the white square bandwagon either. I avoid them as often as I can, but there are rare instances (particularly when upping the formality level of a business outfit) when they are useful.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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I am not on the white square bandwagon either. I avoid them as often as I can, but there are rare instances (particularly when upping the formality level of a business outfit) when they are useful.

I'm not trying to create a bandwagon. I am saying that a white square is always better than no square.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I don't think so. I wear white linen all the time. The trick is just not to show so much square. The majority of SF posters consistently show too much.

yeah, that is an issue I've had (moreso with patch pockets) so I've tried sticking with 11-12 inch squares,

I don't like them when there's no other white. I've tried them when there's only a tiny amount of white elsewhere, such as in the tie, and have not liked the effect.

I'm guilty of showing too much square, partly to compensate for slippage and partly because I like a stronger bar of white when seeking a crisp look.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I'm not trying to create a bandwagon. I am saying that a white square is always better than no square.

OK so I misunderstood your point. I thought that you meant that all outfits would look good with a white square. If you're saying that white is better than none, I'm 100% with you.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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some of my favorite looks in this threak (quar's wedding ensemble, your pics, greg's pics, trini, skinny goom's, among others) would lose nothing by removing the square and in many cases would gain, IMO. In the best outfits, in particular conservative business dress stuff, the shirt collar/tie and their relationship to the suiting is what makes the outfit really pop, for me. The square becomes a bit of a distraction. I've gone to wearing a white/cream square only when I wear my solid navy blazer, other than that, I pretty much never wear a square. I think the silk squares with all the crazy colors only take away from outfits. Also, too many patterned shirts in people's wardrobes. Stripes are one thing, but multi stripes, multi checks etc, unless very, very sedate, will only distract. Patterned suit,patterned shirt, patterned square, seen to often on this forum and almost always not good.

+1 All very insightful and important points. Too many people overdoing everything and losing simple elegance in the process, even in this thread.