Awkward Racial Question

Carpe Diem!

You're black. my mind=blown. You must be one of 5 blacks dudes that rock out to Iggy.

In any case, **** em. You will encounter racism some overt and a **** load unintentional but how would you feel about your self if you passed up a promotion b/c of how folks might react to you? As bad as it might be you won't be in any physical harm and you'll have an chance to not only better your self but perhaps break down a few racial boundaries along the way.

Thanks for the perspectives, guys. You confirm my initial thoughts-- that there is very little downside and a lot of upside potential to the job. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something extremely obvious.

FWIW, I hope you're going over as an expat with a baller housing allowance.

No question that race may be a negative factor.
At the same time, unless the guy who hired you is a total oblivious idiot, or your race was never made clear in the interview process, I'm sure that they made the decision to hire you because they believed that you could do the job better than the other candidates, some of whom must have been white.

I think a lot of very very valid points have been raised in this thread (except the if you go with that mindset, you'll never succeed nonsense)...

I'm not East Asian. I'm not Black. I will also say that I don't find East Asian (except very traditional Japanese) girls attractive...actually I find Mongoloid/East Asian features, physiognomy, and physique quite unattractive....but that's my fucked-up mind.

In any event, Hong Kong is VERY COSMOPOLITAN, and your mind will be blown away. There is an elite of cosmopolitan Hong Kong CHinese, and you will not worry about racism because so much will be fascinating for you with all the fascinating people you'll be meeting. Old, lower class Hong Kong Chinese---you can tell who they are from a million miles away, I don't need to describe to you in detail---will be somewhat prejudiced against you. But if you are stylish, educated, and, well, wealthy and decent--they will work with you. They are interesting...well, weird...that way. But please note---I am assuming you are part of the global community of decent, intelligent people of African extraction---like Condoleezza Rice, Sir Trevor Macdonald, etc etc....

Mainland China is a different story altogether. Without going into too much detail, my undertanding is that Mainland China is cultivating all manner of bizarre relationships with African countries. As a result of which many young Black africans, mostly males, are in China. Many doing jobs. There is some prejudice in mainland china agianst these Africans, because:
1. Africans do have some habits whihc are frowned upon in Chinese culture
2. Africans have some habits which are frowned upon in Western/Amreican culture
3. These Africans do not fit the bill as decent, intelligent citizens of the standard, global culture, and certainly not wealthy.
4. These africans are doing jobs that Chinese want for an even lower wage. YEs, this concept boggles my mind as well....i don't really want to know more about that.
5. Most Mainland chinese don't know the difference between African, Arab, Turkish, Russian, Indian, Malay, Austrolian Aborigine or Android. They only know, based on pictures they've seen in their cartoon textbooks, that there are people out there that look different than them...including some people sketched in these cartoon books to look like gorillas, sasquatches, vikings, and monsters from Classical Chinese mythology.


If you are a decent, educated, relatively well-off American.....go to hong kong. life will be so fascinating you won't have time to ask yourself if people are racist.....but make an effort for ****'s sake to learn their language/culture...

Originally Posted by A.L.Z.

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I think a lot of very very valid points have been raised in this thread (except the if you go with that mindset, you'll never succeed nonsense)...

I'm not East Asian. I'm not Black. I will also say that I don't find East Asian (except very traditional Japanese) girls attractive...actually I find Mongoloid/East Asian features, physiognomy, and physique quite revolting....but that's my fucked-up mind.

In any event, Hong Kong is VERY COSMOPOLITAN, and your mind will be blown away. There is an elite of cosmopolitan Hong Kong CHinese, and you will not worry about racism because so much will be fascinating for you with all the fascinating people you'll be meeting. Old, lower class Hong Kong Chinese---you can tell who they are from a million miles away, I don't need to describe to you in detail---will be somewhat prejudiced against you. But if you are stylish, educated, and, well, wealthy and decent--they will work with you. They are interesting...well, weird...that way. But please note---I am assuming you are part of the global community of decent, intelligent people of African extraction---like Condoleezza Rice, Sir Trevor Macdonald, etc etc....

Mainland China is a different story altogether. Without going into too much detail, my undertanding is that Mainland China is cultivating all manner of bizarre relationships with African countries. As a result of which many young Black africans, mostly males, are in China. Many doing jobs. There is some prejudice in mainland china agianst these Africans, because:
1. Africans do have some habits whihc are frowned upon in Chinese culture
2. Africans have some habits which are frowned upon in Western/Amreican culture
3. These Africans do not fit the bill as decent, intelligent citizens of the standard, global culture, and certainly not wealthy.
4. These africans are doing jobs that Chinese want for an even lower wage. YEs, this concept boggles my mind as well....i don't really want to know more about that.
5. Most Mainland chinese don't know the difference between African, Arab, Turkish, Russian, Indian, Malay, Austrolian Aborigine or Android. They only know, based on pictures they've seen in their cartoon textbooks, that there are people out there that look different than them...including some people sketched in these cartoon books to look like gorillas, sasquatches, vikings, and monsters from Classical Chinese mythology.


If you are a decent, educated, relatively well-off American.....go to hong kong. life will be so fascinating you won't have time to ask yourself if people are racist.....but make an effort for ****'s sake to learn their language/culture...

wow. this is a terrible post.

Originally Posted by nahneun

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wow. this is a terrible post.

This makes me want to go back and read the other 182 things he's posted.

Originally Posted by Pennglock

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Thanks for the perspectives, guys. You confirm my initial thoughts-- that there is very little downside and a lot of upside potential to the job. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something extremely obvious.
You'll do just fine. You'll get some odd stares on the street, and the occasional look of surprise when someone meets you for the first time, but otherwise, the focus will be on performance. Enjoy the experience, it sounds very exciting.

Originally Posted by nahneun

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wow. this is a terrible post.
Yeah, there are very very few black people in the mainland. Those that are here are not doing bottom-rung jobs, but are wealthy expats. In general, all the bottom-rung jobs go to Chinese (and ones from the countryside more so than the city dwellers), not foreigners. This is not America. If anything, it's actually Hong Kong that has a few Nigerians and other blacks working in construction jobs. That said, mainlanders are probably a bit more racist against blacks, having less exposure to them, and foreigners in general. Best of luck. When you get to HK, maybe you can arrange a SF meetup.

I have no real experience on the racial question but I will just (generalize) that Asians tend to be much less confrontational and direct about things, so they may have some issue with you and you just won't know why. You may find deals not happening or not getting invites or whatever and nobody's going to make it clear why...

and of course there's another general idea that Americans tend to be rather assertive and pushy and loud (often even more so African Americans), which is encouraged and seen as successful in USA whereas it's the oposite in Asia, so being assertive and 'closing deals' and being forward, etc may be seen as crude and overbearing out there...


all the above (and what everyone else has posted) said, i still think this sounds like a really cool experience. Just go in a with a positive attitude, expect taht there'll be some cultural differences and live and learn.

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

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Yeah, there are very very few black people in the mainland. Those that are here are not doing bottom-rung jobs, but are wealthy expats. In general, all the bottom-rung jobs go to Chinese (and ones from the countryside more so than the city dwellers), not foreigners. This is not America. If anything, it's actually Hong Kong that has a few Nigerians and other blacks working in construction jobs. That said, mainlanders are probably a bit more racist against blacks, having less exposure to them, and foreigners in general. Best of luck. When you get to HK, maybe you can arrange a SF meetup.
My experience was the opposite. Hangzhou and Shanghai had many black Africans, but I also ventured outside the confined world of where American/Canadian companies send people, when they send people to China. a lot of the africans were students or working in low-paying jobs. One of the weirdest experiences was when our Chinese friend, a black friend who is a Cameroonian student, and I went to a restaurant. It was a crowded Chinese restaruant--Chinese only, lots of noise and filth...etc etc...and our Chinese friend was the translator of course. But they talked a lot to my friend before they seated us. Our friend told us they wanted her assurance that the "black guy" had enough to pay, and that they'd make an exception for him because she was with us, and that usually, with Black customers, they make them pay first and only then serve them. Anyways, the Poster's questoin was about Hong Kong---and I think he has nothing to worry about, if he is being sent to work at an American company in Hong Kong. In fact, the Hong Kong elite (in my experience at least) are more stylish, more fasihonable, more knowledgable, adn just plain more ciivilized than the Americans/Canadians we work with on a daily basis. As many posters have pointed out, Hong Kong is full of expats. Another weird food experience for me--in my experience, the best Indian restaurant I've eaten at was, in all places, Repulse Bay, and the place was full of upper class HongKongese, British expats, Indian expast, etc etc. The only thing that boudn them together was that they all subscribed to standard Western cultural norms, and they were clearly ecoonmically well off... The other thing, of course, that the OP was worried about being Black in Hong Kong.... There is a whole another world about being White (American, Canadian, German, British, etc etc) in Hong Kong....or esepcially in China. Suffice it to say that there is a very nice acronym among the cognescenti to describe "Whites"....espcially British/English in China today...."filth". Failed In London, Try Hangzhou. Pre 1997, it was Failed In London, Try HongKong. Few things piss me off more than the stupidity of Chinese in dealing iwth "whites", and the amoralness of "whites" in China/Hongkong. In my few days in China, I was asked to: 1. Pretend to be a French person from some company in France--an engineer, no less (!!!!!) who was working on the Hangzhou magnetorail... when a group of people from another Chinese city came. I didn't have to say anything, but I had to reply "in French" when our "translator" and the "person who hired me for this role" did the talking. 2. Pretend to like a fake Louis Vuitton purse at the local market...and give the impression it was real. I know this sounds cliche, and usually, people don't believe me when I tell them this story. 3. Pretend to date this Chinese girl to piss off her boyfriend....this was actually quite fun. You have no idea how much of a status symbol it is among the Hangzhou elite to be dating a "white" guy--it gets them access into clubs and other nightlife spots that they would otherwise have no access to.

Originally Posted by Pennglock

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Im seeking some perspective on SF because it seems a lot of folks on this board do business in Asia and the anonymity of the web allows me to be a little more frank.

It's looking like I will be offered the chance to help head a group in Hong Kong starting this summer. 75% of the office will be asian, and about 100% of the clients. The job is a step up in responsibility and accepting the position would be a no-brainer but for one thing, Im black.

I hate to paint with a broad brush, but honestly 75% of the racial bullshit Ive encountered in my life has come from those of an asian persuasion. In college and to a lesser extent on this job, my interactions with foreign-born asians have been...weird. The vibe I catch is that many are either scared or appalled of me. This is just my experience, and admittedly it's a small sample size. Doesn't apply so much to the American-born.

A big part of this job is networking and selling, and Im worried my effectiveness is going to be comprimised right out of the gate.

Opinions and advice are welcome.
PM me.

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

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Yeah, there are very very few black people in the mainland. Those that are here are not doing bottom-rung jobs, but are wealthy expats. In general, all the bottom-rung jobs go to Chinese (and ones from the countryside more so than the city dwellers), not foreigners. This is not America. If anything, it's actually Hong Kong that has a few Nigerians and other blacks working in construction jobs.

That said, mainlanders are probably a bit more racist against blacks, having less exposure to them, and foreigners in general.

Best of luck. When you get to HK, maybe you can arrange a SF meetup.
haven't chatted to you in ages Kent...what are you doing in China?

Originally Posted by Slopho

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I had a Vietnamese friend tell me once that in general dark skinned people, including other dark skinned Asians, are looked down upon. Its not just black people its anyone darker than they are.

my gf is viet and i can confirm this,they even look down on other dark skinned asians especially Philipinos...by the same token Im as white as it gets and i get really strange looks when im with her from other asians as well,mind you im about 6 foot 220 and shes 5 foot 100 pounds