st crispins vs vass

i love the PRET last by st crispins twice as more than any f or U last of vass. the leathers are crust and very substantial on st crispins by far and the sole c onstruction is better and has a true beveled waist

Originally Posted by aportnoy

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St. Crispin's for the win...

What happened to your rug?

Originally Posted by Sterling Gillette

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Because a great many shoemakers are of the opinion that the enormous stress which lasts on the leather makes the resulting shoe less sturdy.

Say those who can't do it, or are too lazy to try.

The stress on the leather is only during the blocking (crimping) process. Pulling the wet leather over the last, can easily result in a tear in the leather. Both MarcellHun and DWFII have tried it and have both succeeded in blocking at least one upper for a seamless whole-cut. I don't know, if they produced a second upper or turned it into a pair of shoes by putting a sole on.

It might be difficult for a bespoke firm to take on an order for a seamless whole-cut as this depends very much on the leather, whether it will or will not respond as required (although I believe, Paolo Scafora has no qualms, about accepting orders for this style.}

Originally Posted by Sterling Gillette

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Plus it's quite tricky to repair.

Always the excuse of the incompetent: "We'll make big stitches, that makes it easier to repair."

Repairs should preferably be done by the firm, that has produced the goods in the first place. Hence nobody would have to take the competence of the lowest common denominator ("˜Mister Minit') into account. After all, would anybody give his Patek (with complications) to be repaired at 'Mister Minit'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcuknu
Is there anything more sexy in the world than a seemless wholecut?
nope.

Sexier? A Seamless wholecut Derby:

http://cobblersweb.style.coocan.jp/marini1/marini01.htm

From Marini in Rome. I have not personally been to the store
or seen the shoes, as I have Vass in Budapest and some examples
of St Crispins in the US.

That looks like 2 pieces of leather to me.

Lattanzi had something like a wholecut derby.
I think even bengal stripe (!) did only speculate on the possible methds how they manipulated the leather!

Originally Posted by Cravate_Noire

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Lattanzi had something like a wholecut derby.
I think even bengal stripe (!) did only speculate on the possible methds how they manipulated the leather!

Here's bengal's post on the Lattanzi's seamless (alleged) wholecut derby.

st crispins have alot less handwork than vass,
are handwelted,
but outsole is stitch by machine,
st crispins use staple gun instead of nails when lasting shoe.
what better l don't know

thanks for all your input. the shoe crowd is an active one on this forum. i have been an alden devote for twenty years and am going to try SC and Vass. Last but not least who makes the best buck shoe. They are increasingly hard to find.

Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir

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st crispins have alot less handwork than vass,
are handwelted,
but outsole is stitch by machine,
st crispins use staple gun instead of nails when lasting shoe.
what better l don't know

No.

No, only the toe, and that's the lasting, not the welting.

So what?

Zzzzzzzz.


- B

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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No.

No, only the toe, and that's the lasting, not the welting.

So what?

Zzzzzzzz.


- B

Me think you not right properly.
Completely handlasted and handwelted,
machine stitched on outside,
but hand done waist,
me wrong about not using nails in handlasting, sorry

Originally Posted by Baron

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That looks like 2 pieces of leather to me.

I think you're right. Unless they cut one piece and fold the V front
over the tongue. In any case, I covet those shoes.

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

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Say those who can't do it, or are too lazy to try.

The stress on the leather is only during the blocking (crimping) process. Pulling the wet leather over the last, can easily result in a tear in the leather. Both MarcellHun and DWFII have tried it and have both succeeded in blocking at least one upper for a seamless whole-cut. I don't know, if they produced a second upper or turned it into a pair of shoes by putting a sole on.

It might be difficult for a bespoke firm to take on an order for a seamless whole-cut as this depends very much on the leather, whether it will or will not respond as required (although I believe, Paolo Scafora has no qualms, about accepting orders for this style.}



Always the excuse of the incompetent: "We'll make big stitches, that makes it easier to repair."

Repairs should preferably be done by the firm, that has produced the goods in the first place. Hence nobody would have to take the competence of the lowest common denominator ("˜Mister Minit') into account. After all, would anybody give his Patek (with complications) to be repaired at 'Mister Minit'?
I know that it's technically possible and that there are shoemakers who use this method. I, personally, don't like wholecut shoes so I'm maybe not the best to judge the durability of such a shoe. I can only pass on what I gathered through various talks with renowned shoemakers in this case.
I totally agree with you that repairs should be done by the maker or at least a shoemaker whom you can trust. However, I don't see any sense in making the repairing process more difficult than is necessary, just to please an ignorant customer who thinks a shoe must have fewer seams to be of better quality. This is what I would call cheating, not service. We all know that repairing a shoe is financially better for most shoemakers than making a whole shoe. So, for me, it's quite clear why some shoemakers insist on using construction method which take forever to repair.

So, I know it can be done, but I think it's useless.

Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir

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Great video.


- B

That video is unbelievable. Vox, did you say that you dealt with a St. Crispins dealer directly through email?