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Berardi's stuff is simple. He's accomplished a lot, and his stuff works.

If I was into "crazy complex **** = accomplishment" I would be a much bigger fan of Poliquin.

agreed. poliquin is too complex for my simple mind. all that tempo, rest/pause, etc "” *******.

thibs new plan is due out in a few weeks btw

So he went with silver bells and gold whistles? Same **** different package.

I didn't realize people subscribed to personalities instead of ideas.

Originally Posted by why

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I have a problem with people making something terribly simple overly complex out of ignorance and greed. It's almost as if they know the basics are so shallow that they're unsellable, so somewhere along the line gold bells and platinum whistles are added to drive more business.

Originally Posted by why

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So he went with silver bells and gold whistles? Same **** different package. I didn't realize people subscribed to personalities instead of ideas.
So, Berardi and Poliquin are either greedy or ignorant. Would you agree that is the implication of your statement? Now, regarding your implication of ignorance: Are you implying these two people are more ignorant than you? I know none among you three, but here are links to short biographies of two found on the world wide web. Charles Poliquin has lectured extensively on practical and theoretical aspects of physical conditioning in eight different countries and in 3 different languages. Throughout, Dr. Berardi’s research has focused on the interaction between nutrition, sports supplementation, and exercise performance. This research has led to the publication of 8 scientific abstracts, 12 scientific papers and textbook chapters, and over a dozen presentations at scientific meetings. Now, regarding your implication of greed: Is any of the information from these two trainers discussed here costly? Has anyone here paid money to garner advice from them? On their bio sheets, clients include the Toronto Maple Leafs, Chicago Blackhawks, and Detroit Redwings. I did not see theKunk07 or James Bond.

I didn't realize people subscribed to personalities instead of ideas.

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How is this dissimilar from trusting Billy Reid's clothing based on the fact that it is Billy Reid's clothing?

Originally Posted by ken

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Now, regarding your implication of ignorance: Are you implying these two people are more ignorant than you?
Yes, but by the nature of their self-created celebrity their credibility is inevitably weighed against my own. It's the opposite of what I've been trying to say -- namely that credibility and scientific accuracy are not related -- but the existence of their celebrity and assumed credibility from it will cause people to believe in them. It's a good thing science isn't a democracy or religion and therefore supporters and believers have no influence on it.

Originally Posted by ken

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Now, regarding your implication of greed: Is any of the information from these two trainers discussed here costly? Has anyone here paid money to garner advice from them? On their bio sheets, clients include the Toronto Maple Leafs, Chicago Blackhawks, and Detroit Redwings. I did not see theKunk07 or James Bond.
Costliness has nothing to do with greed.

Originally Posted by ken

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How is this dissimilar from trusting Billy Reid's clothing based on the fact that it is Billy Reid's clothing?
Trust in what way? I try on Billy Reid's clothing just like I try on pretty much every piece of clothing before I buy it. If I don't want it I don't buy it. I can't do that with a lengthy diet plan, but with a lengthy diet plan I can see through the nonsense. Clothing and ideas about nutritional science are not analogous at all. I don't wear the same clothing all the time and I can't study clothing in any kind of scientific or analytical way If you're trying to equate clothing brands to nutritional science 'brands' then you've just proved my point.

gimme a ******* break dude.

it is a good idea to find someone knowledgeable with similar goals, etc. thibadeau and i have similar genetic bodytypes so i'd rather hear what he has to say as opposed to a straight mesomorph or someone who trains powerlifters specifically.

I thought we were going to have a good discussion about science and then somatotypes popped up. Guess not.

i just think you refute EVERYTHING and i'm not exactly sure why.

Originally Posted by thekunk07

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i just think you refute EVERYTHING and i'm not exactly sure why.

Not everything, just trying my best to cut through the nonsense.

I think it's just a matter of speaking up when I disagree and remaining silent when I feel as if there's nothing to add.

I'm trying to sift through the last several pages of bullshit and answer questions. If you don't want any advice from me or think I'm wrong about whatever, that's fine. Feel free to start a new thread titled "Reasons Noir. is an idiot and a fat slob". I really don't give a damn, but please stop ******** up the thread with useless banter. I'm going to try and sift past everything else because there is no value added whatsoever in bitching at each other.

Obviously I take a more technical approach - if that's not your style or something you don't have the time or motivation to deal with, then I strongly suggest asking someone else. I stated early on I would give my beliefs and opinions about matters - and that's what I'm doing. You can get an admirable physique with time and a little bit of effort, but to take it to the next level, with decent muscle mass and very low levels of BF, it requires more. Take it or leave it. I'm almost certain I've gotten to everyone who's PMd & emailed me. If anyone emails directly, please PM here so I know to check the account.

Originally Posted by Big A

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Thanks for the comments. I think you and some others are correct that I'm seeing "newbie" gains, but I worked with trainers for over a year and didn't get nearly as far (then I took a year off, so I am "new" from that perspective). I just posted because I think a lot of the conventional wisdom that's preached is wrong, at least for me. I am interested in other opinions though, and I'd appreciate your insight as to how I might cut the last bit of spare tire off

Also, fwiw, the "chest" measurement gains are mostly in my back. I gained some size in my pecs but my lats really exploded in size on this low rep / high weight program. In fact, the best responseseems to be from the largest muscles (lats & quads)

After a hiatus you can get "newb" gains again either through muscle memory or simply doing something better and effectively getting better results. If you're more fast twitch dominant, for example, low rep ranges might work better. This is rather likely what happened in your case, though there may obviously be other extraneous factors.

I had a similar growth pattern with my lats from weighted pullups & to a lesser extent deadlifts. I started significantly smaller than 40 though. I can see how the best responses would be from the larger muscle groups for the reasons above. Play around with rep ranges if something stalls, specifically smaller groups. If it doesn't, then just stick with it.

Originally Posted by Pat

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What kind of diet should I be on to help achieve 6 pack abs?

This is an absolutely horrendous way to pose a question. If you'll look back in the thread I give pretty detailed, borderline OCD comments about my dietary regime. There is no one size fits all plan. I'm sure this is coming off as rude and I'm sorry for that, but I really don't know how you were expecting me to respond if the Q was directed at me.

Originally Posted by nordicstyle

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One that contains less calories than what your body requires during a day. In other words: the only way to get visible muscles--regardless of what muscles--is to reduce your body fat percentage. Once the muscles are visible you can improve them (i.e. make them bigger) with strength training. What they actually look like once they become visible and how large they can become is highly dependent on genetics and is therefore out of your control.

Mostly true. I still believe it's not JUST calories in calories out. If I ate 500kcals under BMR in the form of oreo cookies, I won't look very good. Period. If I did then I'd eat them every day because they're ******* delicious.

Originally Posted by lynchpatrickj

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Should I work out (hit the gym, run, lift weights) while sick? My throat's kind of raw and phlegmy and I have the beginnings of a headache. Otherwise, I'm taking DayQuil and lying around the house all day, eating snacks (I get really hungry while I'm sick) and watching TV and reading SF.

If it's above the neck you're generally okay to work out. If you feel it in your lungs or generally feel terrible, i wouldn't. I usually go anyway just because, though - many times when I shouldn't. I'm an addict. Oh well, there are worse vices I suppose.




Also, interested how kunk's diet is going. bloating should be down quite a bit, strength should have gone up since say friday, and fat loss should be moving forward again. Y/N?

Originally Posted by lynchpatrickj

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Should I work out (hit the gym, run, lift weights) while sick? My throat's kind of raw and phlegmy and I have the beginnings of a headache. Otherwise, I'm taking DayQuil and lying around the house all day, eating snacks (I get really hungry while I'm sick) and watching TV and reading SF.

do not work out when sick. Its not a good idea regardless of if you feel like you can "manage" a workout. take some time off, rest and eat over maintenance.

Originally Posted by thekunk07

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agreed. poliquin is too complex for my simple mind. all that tempo, rest/pause, etc — *******. thibs new plan is due out in a few weeks btw
I like the Waterbury idea for tempo: control the eccentric, accelerate through the concentric. What's Thib's new plan supposed to be like?

Originally Posted by why

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I thought we were going to have a good discussion about science and then somatotypes popped up. Guess not.
You've made it abundantly clear that you feel science as applied to nutrition is needlessly complicated, so why the hell would you want to discuss it?

Originally Posted by James Bond

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I like the Waterbury idea for tempo: control the eccentric, accelerate through the concentric.

I am a fan of this as well.

What's Thib's new plan supposed to be like?

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There was mention of it in a discussion about his most recent ebook. It's supposed to be aimed @ bulking iirc, and he's making it available for free in installments I believe.



I don't mind discussion. It's blatant hostility with no reasoning whatsoever to back it up that I find absurd. It adds absolutely nothing. I don't think anyone questions where people stand on the issues.

As an aside I got a phone call a little while ago from my photographer and she told me the photos from our most recent shoot were sold to an art exhibit

so far so good. bloating is gone, down another .25 inch on waist and 3 lbs.

Originally Posted by Noir.

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I'm trying to sift through the last several pages of bullshit and answer questions. If you don't want any advice from me or think I'm wrong about whatever, that's fine. Feel free to start a new thread titled "Reasons Noir. is an idiot and a fat slob". I really don't give a damn, but please stop ******** up the thread with useless banter. I'm going to try and sift past everything else because there is no value added whatsoever in bitching at each other.

Obviously I take a more technical approach - if that's not your style or something you don't have the time or motivation to deal with, then I strongly suggest asking someone else. I stated early on I would give my beliefs and opinions about matters - and that's what I'm doing. You can get an admirable physique with time and a little bit of effort, but to take it to the next level, with decent muscle mass and very low levels of BF, it requires more. Take it or leave it. I'm almost certain I've gotten to everyone who's PMd & emailed me. If anyone emails directly, please PM here so I know to check the account.




After a hiatus you can get "newb" gains again either through muscle memory or simply doing something better and effectively getting better results. If you're more fast twitch dominant, for example, low rep ranges might work better. This is rather likely what happened in your case, though there may obviously be other extraneous factors.

I had a similar growth pattern with my lats from weighted pullups & to a lesser extent deadlifts. I started significantly smaller than 40 though. I can see how the best responses would be from the larger muscle groups for the reasons above. Play around with rep ranges if something stalls, specifically smaller groups. If it doesn't, then just stick with it.

This is an absolutely horrendous way to pose a question. If you'll look back in the thread I give pretty detailed, borderline OCD comments about my dietary regime. There is no one size fits all plan. I'm sure this is coming off as rude and I'm sorry for that, but I really don't know how you were expecting me to respond if the Q was directed at me.



Mostly true. I still believe it's not JUST calories in calories out. If I ate 500kcals under BMR in the form of oreo cookies, I won't look very good. Period. If I did then I'd eat them every day because they're ******* delicious.

If it's above the neck you're generally okay to work out. If you feel it in your lungs or generally feel terrible, i wouldn't. I usually go anyway just because, though - many times when I shouldn't. I'm an addict. Oh well, there are worse vices I suppose.




Also, interested how kunk's diet is going. bloating should be down quite a bit, strength should have gone up since say friday, and fat loss should be moving forward again. Y/N?