If you had to start over tomorrow...

Alright, to start things off this morning more in the spirit of A. Harris's original thread in the S&D forum, I am going to post some samples of what is for me best-of-class examples in RTW that I would buy if lighting struck everything that I own now...and also my bespoke tailor.

We will assume full retail, and that when things are too expensive, it just means that you have to get less of it and wait longer to get your pieces together.

1. Dress Shirts: Barba



2. Neckties: Three-way tie among Nicky's and Drake's, and if they have the patterns that you want, Sam Hober.



3. Odd jackets: Borrelli Linosa/Sorrento.



4. Odd trousers (wool): Valentini Sartoriale



5. Odd trousers (cotton): Kiton (not a pic, but enjoyable nonetheless...)



6. Suits: I can't think of any. No lines wow me. Maybe Crittendon because it is cheap and softly constructed. Does anyone here own one of these new Crittendon suits yet?



7. Shoes: Vass F and U lasts.



How about for the rest of you?


- B

Dressing well is not just a destination - it is a journey. And though the end result is important, the journey itself is just as valuable. So I will second what others have said, which is to say that even the missteps have been enjoyable, and that I would not necessarily want to just start all over.

There is something pleasing also in knowing that you can't just get up one morning and start dressing perfectly - you have to go through some growing pains to understand what works and what doesn't work for you, and to find your personal style. I've always thought that you should find what looks good on you and wear it, regardless of what the trends say. Ultimately, that's how you are stylish, as opposed to fashionable. Trying things, learning things, and seeing how they change to your eye over time, and making mistakes really are necessary parts of the equation.

Ultimately, though, if my house burned down tomorrow and all my sartorial collection went up in flames, here's how I would approach a re-building of my wardrobe. Emphasis is primarily on quality, simplicity, versatility, and a reduced overall number of items. Also a certain amount of consistency of fit, styling, and coloring, based on things I've learned I wear well and enjoy.

- I'd go with all bespoke Chan shirts in simple, classic, and versatile colors, mostly blues and whites, only a few fancies, all with a "signature" collar (long points, narrow spread) that I know works for me. I could do with 15 shirts, plus maybe 2 in linen with button-down collars. All but the linens in french cuffs.

- I'd try to minimize shoe purchases to a very limited selection of classics, predominantly in brown, from mid-high-end makers. I've learned I don't want or need as many formal shoes, so I'd focus on bluchers and boots over bals. I think I could get by with 8 pairs: A Rider Chukka in shell, Borgioli wingtip in brown, a reasonable captoe bal in black, a black chelsea boot, C&J Tetburys in brown suede, a reasonable brown derby shoe, a comfy rubber-soled brown captoe blucher or ankle boot, and for my piece de resistance, my dream shoe, EG Bealieu in dark oak.

- Limited trousers, in classic browns, tans, greys, mostly solids with perhaps some textural interest. 7 in wool, 3 linen, all pleated fronts, 2-1/8" cuffs. Also 2 pairs of cords, tan and brown, flat front, 2-1/8" cuffs. 2 pairs of cotton trousers, khaki or cream and brown, flat fronts, 2-1/8" cuffs.

- Sportcoats are where I like to have fun, so these would be my biggest expenditure. A few classics, like 2 navy blazers (1 4-season, 1 summerweight), a few interesting tweeds with windowpanes, and a bunch of loudish windowpane sportcoats, as seasonal as possible.

- I'd trim the suits down to maybe 3, all quality, all great fits, all SB, 2-button. Navy, Charcoal, and something else fun. Maybe a dark brown with a white chalkstripe. The navy might have peaked lapels.

- Simple, classic ties. Solids, spots, no more loud colors (I'm embarrassed by how many Robert Talbotts I've bought). Add a few with texture, woolens, grenadines, and maybe 2 knits. Almost no stripes; I just don't like them. No prints. I think I could confine my tie rotation to 15.

I guess I almost want my things to be like a uniform - simplicity in cut, fit, and color, very predictable, but let the details speak for the quality and try to combine colors as sublimely as possible. The only flash would come from loud sportcoats, antiqued shoes, and the occasionally flashy cufflink.

I know I way overanswered this question, but I was having fun. Don't shoot me.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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Ultimately, though, if my house burned down tomorrow and all my sartorial collection went up in flames, here's how I would approach a re-building of my wardrobe. Emphasis is primarily on quality, simplicity, versatility, and a reduced overall number of items. Also a certain amount of consistency of fit, styling, and coloring, based on things I've learned I wear well and enjoy.

Well, I think that all of us are converging on the point that George Frazier was making with the Tony Biddle example.

So, let me know ask a slightly different question: if we confined ourselves to RTW, we would probably come up with many different answers about what we would each choose if starting from scratch.

If you were to choose one class of item to start as a bespoke garment, however, what would that be?

My answer: shirts.

Note, that in my case, I have still failed to execute what I believe should be the starting point moving from RTW to more indivualized clothes, since this is hindsight, not foresight.


- B

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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If you were to choose one class of item to start as a bespoke garment, however, what would that be?

My answer: shirts.

1. shoes
2. shirts, due to my necksize

Same as I did in real life.

For the rest, I'm much more with what the Doc says(highlighted):

There's little I regret. I've cultivated a pretty decent wardrobe, and mostly without paying retail. Oddly, some of the few items I do regret are those I paid retail for, thinking they were worth the premium. Rarely have they turned out to be as special as I thought. At least the cheap mistakes were cheap.

Stuff I would do differently, if I knew then what I know now:

Skip 90 percent of the tie purchases. I have boxes upon boxes of unworn ties, and each year they cross their fingers and hope Sartorial Santa will take them to a better home. But he never does. Sometimes, at night, I think I can hear them sobbing.

...buy more shirts with interesting texture.

Realize "earlier", that I like boots and shoes equally.

Even with hindsight, I'm not sure how I could have avoided some of my mistakes. All part of the learning curve, and I'm OK with that. As yf said, it's been fun.

If only RTW.

Dress Shirts: H&K, Finamore, and Truzzi

Ties: Rubinacci, Borrelli, and Drakes

Odd Jackets: Borrelli and Caruso

Odd Trousers: Borrelli, Cucinelli

Suits: Sartoria and St. Andrews

Shoes: JL and Vass

Entry into bespoke was and would be suits.

Why no Allen-Edmonds?

If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy Google at IPO and hold it until its all-time high.

I would then use my profit to buy a wardrobe that would include plenty of EG's, C&J's, RLPL, RLBL, Borelli, Isaia, etc., etc.

If I could start over knowing what I know now I wouldnt have wasted so much money on RTW brands. I made the mistake of thinking that OTR Zegna and Brioni were the best to be had even though I had someone knowledgeable telling me otherwise. Then to make things worse I started trying to bargain hunt for these brands. I ended up with quite a few suits that I didnt like or didnt fit very well because of this. I also would have considered the fit of the suit before the fabric. I have always liked fabrics a great deal and I often bought suits because of the fabric used before I considered the fit. (I still make this mistake in combination with mistake one so knowing it really hasnt helped me I guess ) I have made many other choices that were errors in hindsight but when it comes to suits these are the most costly I made.

Originally Posted by embowafa

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If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy Google at IPO and hold it until its all-time high.

Sounds vaguely familiar...


- B

Originally Posted by whnay.

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Entry into bespoke was and would be suits.

Why did (and would) you start with suits, B.?

If I did things over, I would start with shirts because it is...well...the first layer, and would help the fit of jackets.

Do the RTW shirt brands you list fit you well already, or do you get them retailored?


- B

Originally Posted by fritzl

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1. shoes

F., bespoke shoes are a bit more financially accessible where you live than they are in, say, the United States.

Would you still start with shoes if you had to pay for Cleverleys?


- B

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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F., bespoke shoes are a bit more financially accessible where you live than they are in, say, the United States.

Would you still start with shoes if you had to pay for Cleverleys?


- B

Can I sleep over this question

PS: So are shirts...

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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Sounds vaguely familiar...


- B

But not the choice of clothes...

Originally Posted by TIEALIGN

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If I could start over knowing what I know now I wouldnt have wasted so much money on RTW brands. I made the mistake of thinking that OTR Zegna and Brioni were the best to be had even though I had someone knowledgeable telling me otherwise. Then to make things worse I started trying to bargain hunt for these brands. I ended up with quite a few suits that I didnt like or didnt fit very well because of this. I also would have considered the fit of the suit before the fabric. I have always liked fabrics a great deal and I often bought suits because of the fabric used before I considered the fit. (I still make this mistake in combination with mistake one so knowing it really hasnt helped me I guess

) I have made many other choices that were errors in hindsight but when it comes to suits these are the most costly I made.

When I was a boy and a young man, I was top to bottom Brooks Brothers (before it began its modern decline with the 1988 Marks & Spencer acquisition). Whatever its faults, it made for a very harmonious look. In the fourteen years between then and when I settled on a bespoke tailor that I liked in 2002, I bought and tried nearly every good RTW maker...Oxxford, Brioni, RLPL/Chester Barrie and Barbera/St. Andrews at first, and then the RTW Neapolitan makers. I still keep many of my favorites, but the bulk has been given away to charity (maybe to end up on the shoulders of canny thifting SFers...).

I think I would have been better off just to start getting A&S once I became dissatisfied with the direction of BB c.1988. I might have spent less money and looked better sooner.

But then, I guess I would be as blissfully ignorant about RTW as Manton....



- B

RTW only - here's how I'd go...



Barba Black Label Ties
Borrelli Shirts - and Sport coats
Sartorio Napoli Suits and Sport coats (love the cut and fabrics)
Incotex Pants
Shoes by Vass, Martegani, Cleverly and Bontoni
Lobb and Glaser for Briefcases
All OVC socks - e.g., pantherella
Cashmere - e.g., Avon Celli
And All cedar hangers