Tupac Shakur

hi-val · May 8, 2008

Ghostface Killah's earlier stuff is also worth checking out, as is Fishscales.

Fade to Black · May 8, 2008

Pac didn't really get much production from Dre...only ones of note i can think of off top are Can't C Me, California Love (OG and RMX)...of course those are all great, but that particular era wasn't Dre's pinnacle and then you had the fall out between the two, prompting Pac to end "To Live and Die in LA" with the line "California Love part 2...without gay ass Dre" as the song fades out.

Southern-Nupe · May 8, 2008

Originally Posted by Ludeykrus

Very true. Back then there was some division in the rap community. I definitely love some of Tupac's work, but Biggie always struck me as a more 'real', deeper rapper. I never got much into ODB, but his earlier stuff definitely was better. God, this is taking me back..... let's see how many Bone, Thugs, n Harmony songs I still have around...
I've always loved Bigs (still one of my favorites), but I always thought of Pac as the deeper rapper.

It's just that most remember his later more commercial "thug life" hits, but to go back and listen to 2pacalypse or read his poetry reveals that the brother was on a level that few might recognize.

hi-val · May 9, 2008

Yep, Pac has a book of poetry that's worth checking out of the library. I think it's called A Rose Grows In Concrete.

Fade to Black · May 9, 2008

Pac is definitely a better rapper than BIG...I think Jay-Z is better than BIG too, particularly when it comes to material they came out with at around the same time. Big had a very intense energy to him, i think a good description was hearing him rap (especially on Ready to Die) sounded like you were getting hit by a stick up kid. But Pac's voice...man, Pac's music really speaks to the human condition, and i'm sure anyone who feels like they are an unimportant, lonely and unheard voice in the world can find solace and relate to Pac's music.

I can't think of a musician in the world who has a vocal delivery that sounds as sincere, passionate and genuine as 2Pac's.

hi-val · May 9, 2008

Biggie is hampered by not having made any truly great albums, just great songs. He's nowhere as deep or as lyrically talented as Tupac, but his delivery is solid gold. I agree about it sounding like a stickup kid. There's a real superficial (not in a bad way) quality of it being good from the top, the first listen, but not really evolving as you listen to it more.

As far as musicians with the most sincere, passionate and genuine delivery, I'll just assume that you haven't heard Jeff Mangum : )

Southern-Nupe · May 9, 2008

Originally Posted by hi-val

Biggie is hampered by not having made any truly great albums, just great songs. He's nowhere as deep or as lyrically talented as Tupac, but his delivery is solid gold. I agree about it sounding like a stickup kid. There's a real superficial (not in a bad way) quality of it being good from the top, the first listen, but not really evolving as you listen to it more. As far as musicians with the most sincere, passionate and genuine delivery, I'll just assume that you haven't heard Jeff Mangum : )
I thought both of Bigs albums were great, but he never had the opportunity to musically evolve given his fairly short career.

Fade to Black · May 9, 2008

Big made one great and one good album...granted he only had 2 during his time here, but if anything i think that 'a lot of good songs, not a lot of good albums' thing applies to 2Pac more...Pac had 3 great albums and like a gazillion awesome songs just floating around (many of which got butchered via the posthumous releases and different beats)

mr.loverman · May 10, 2008

wasn't dre a ***?

Goblin · May 10, 2008

Originally Posted by Ludeykrus

Very true. Back then there was some division in the rap community. I definitely love some of Tupac's work, but Biggie always struck me as a more 'real', deeper rapper. I never got much into ODB, but his earlier stuff definitely was better. God, this is taking me back..... let's see how many Bone, Thugs, n Harmony songs I still have around...
+1

I like Tupac -- there's never been a harder diss track than "Hit 'Em Up", at least his parts -- but I never considered him on the same level as Biggie, Jigga, or Nas in terms of talent.

Quantity is a bad yardstick for hip hop. A lot of the greats have had flashes of brilliance and then fallen off.

Goblin · May 10, 2008

Originally Posted by mr.loverman

wasn't dre a ***?

BE-HAVE!

TeeMillz · May 10, 2008

Originally Posted by hi-val

Biggie is hampered by not having made any truly great albums, just great songs.

As far as musicians with the most sincere, passionate and genuine delivery, I'll just assume that you haven't heard Jeff Mangum : )

He is hampered by not having any great albums?

What, are you serious? Ready to die is a bonafide gangster classic. Right up there with Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt, Doe or die, etc. Many would say it's one of the best hip-hop albums ever.

Fade to Black · May 10, 2008

yeah ready to die is a classic, undisputable at this point.

Pac on the other hand has MATW, AEOM and 7 Day Theory, all of which are in the 4.5 mic range but not quite classic due to some unevenness (i think 7 Day Theory comes the closest but still isn't what i'd call a "perfect" album). Overall Pac has more good songs than Big but that's just because Pac was recording like a thousand tracks a day

TeeMillz · May 10, 2008

Originally Posted by Fade to Black

yeah ready to die is a classic, undisputable at this point. Pac on the other hand has MATW, AEOM and 7 Day Theory, all of which are in the 4.5 mic range but not quite classic due to some unevenness (i think 7 Day Theory comes the closest but still isn't what i'd call a "perfect" album). Overall Pac has more good songs than Big but that's just because Pac was recording like a thousand tracks a day
Me Against the World in my opinion the best album he put out, it is also my personal favorite. I guess because it's his most emotional album and it's devoid of all beef that's splattered throughout the other albums. All Eyez on Me is a great album but it has a fair amount of filler with R&B songs. People will always be divided about Biggie. Biggie fans will say he has better lyrically and flow wise (which is mostly true), and Pac fans will say his songs have a deeper meaning (Also true). Comes down to preference really, I love both but prefer Pac.

hi-val · May 10, 2008

Originally Posted by TeeMillz

He is hampered by not having any great albums?

What, are you serious? Ready to die is a bonafide gangster classic. Right up there with Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt, Doe or die, etc. Many would say it's one of the best hip-hop albums ever.

Sure, I'll give you that.

What I guess I was thinking of is that Biggie's beats are just stone awful most of the time. It really dates his music in a way that Pac's and other contemporary stuff isn't dated. I wonder what kind of beats he'd have if he were around today; I think good producers would have made a lot more with his music.

On the subject of Tupac, has anyone else noticed that he has a chorus of girls in damn near every song? Like Tupac, I'm sure they're your cousins and you're hooking them up with a job to help them out, but really, do you need them singing "I wonder why they call you *****"? Do you need them in Hit Em Up?

On a related note, California Love is like 3 minutes of good song, 3 minutes of intro/outro that get repetitive : \\

Tupac Shakur

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